Control undead

[Steve]

Control Undead is a Necromancy spell.

Animate Undead is a Necromancy spell with Evil descriptor.

(Greater) Create Undead is a Necromancy spell with Evil descriptor.

How this syncs with NWN2 spell descriptors....

[Lockonnow]

Wail of Banshee that one is evil

[Hawke]

Hehe , Wail might seem evil to the recipient, but it isn't evil.

And like I said, neither is Control Undead.

Just cause it is necromancy, does not mean it is evil.

[Lockonnow]

what dose it make it evil, what do the evil spell do

[Hawke]

It can occur differently depending on the interpretation of it... but in a nutshell, you are focusing evil energy, and it can change you (i.e. modify your alignment) over time. Or make you batshit crazy, or both.

[Invoker]

we dont have Bodak's Glare.on the server as a spell we have it asa scroll but it is not working

It's easy to fix it, it just misses a line and the Bodak itself (you can put in any creature).

As for the topic, it always amuses me how stopping someone's heart with necromancy is "clearly evil" while burning people alive or crushing them in a force vise are "morally ok".

Hilarious.

[Hawke]

As for the topic, it always amuses me how stopping someone's heart with necromancy is "clearly evil" while burning people alive or crushing them in a force vise are "morally ok".

Hilarious.

^ This +1

[duracele]

I think it is the same logic that makes smart bombs morally ok and barrell bombs a no go.

[Karond]

With undead, there is some reason to it...like enabling negative energy spirits to walk the mortal world etc.

Still, it is a bit suspect since if you do great evil with a fireball, you can actually cause evil to appear in lore. Like, sights of evil betrayals, deaths etc., can produce evil ghosts, spirits etc., sometimes incorporeal and other times possessing a corpse.

In that light, it's a thin line.

[metaquad4]

D&D's alignment system tends to be a bit of an arbitrary, black and white one. If its says its evil, its evil. If it says its good, its good. If it doesn't say anything about alignment, then its unaligned in and of itself. That is just the rule set we are choosing to play in, by playing within D&D's system.

Also, as far as that spell list...don't forget the infamous avasculate! http://alcyius.com/dndtools/spells/libr ... index.html

I wonder...do we go by nwn2 or D&D descriptors, to judge is a spell is evil or good. Considering nwn2 is the game we are playing (not pnp), but we are using some of pnp's content. Do we refer back to pnp for those spells like avasculate, protection from good/evil, etc for the sake of determining their alignment?

[Boddynock]

This is almost always situational, as not even the creation of undead is 100% always an evil act. See revenants of Hoar and Baelnorn for examples.

[Darradarljod]

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Baelnorn_lich

[metaquad4]

This is almost always situational, as not even the creation of undead is 100% always an evil act. See revenants of Hoar and Baelnorn for examples.

Revenance doesn't have an evil descriptor, and thusly, isn't evil. The spells needed for Baelnorns probably don't have an evil descriptor (I don't think they are written anywhere) for the arcane method, and the divine method doesn't have one either (again, not written, but its safe to say the spell used by whichever elven deity grants it doesn't have the evil descriptor).

The Summon Undead Series, Animate Dead, Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead on the other hand contain the evil descriptor, and casting those spells is an evil act.

Its not the undead themselves that are inherantly evil (see undead shades created by shadowdancers as well as these two examples). Its the spells/classes/races/feats/whatever that are specifically evil or contain evil descriptors.

[Deathgrowl]

The spell Control Undead is not evil.

Indeed, there's a big disagreement in lore between the churches of Helm and Torm (I think it was) about whether it is acceptable to control already existing undead or not. The church of Helm says no, and curiously, the church of Torm - the patron of Paladins, guys - says yes.

Now it should be noted that they would only ever accept this when it is really necessary. They'd still prefer other methods.

[kleomenes]

It does have to be said that as I understand it the undead that Tormites would control are non-evil "duty beyond death" types rather than the evil types summoned by necromancers. Tormites wouldn't permit, say, dominating a ghast in the wilds.

Helmite church also has Watchghosts in service interestingly!