Control undead

[Lockonnow]

Is the spell evil act i will say no i think it is more a definder spell if you met a wizard he Animate Dead and you use a spell to take the control on the undead to attack him ?

[chad878262]

Generally I'm thinking good wood only destroy undead. Considering summoning undead is evil controlling them would also be evil, but maybe a question for dms.

[Lockonnow]

if you control a undead and it die for fighting for it's freedoms a evil man take control of a undead then a good man take control of the same undead and it die on the good side is it evil ?

[AlwaysSummer Day]

I have seen this debate before and actually there is canon lore example somewhere of neutral or possibly good aligned clerics on a death god that are allowed to use this spell iirc but I may be mistaken.

[Rhifox]

It is not classified as an Evil spell. Mechanically, it is not Evil and will not shift you towards Evil.

Philosophically? IMO it is evil. Just like many Enchantment, Illusion, and Conjuration spells are evil, since they're about enslaving the minds of other creatures.

[chad878262]

Greyhawk setting had a lawful neutral good of the dead who's clerics channeled negative energy (Wee-jas?), but I don't think that exists in forgotten realms...Myrkul is lawful evil, Jergal and Kelemvor are both very anti-undead.

[Hoihe]

Negative energy is not evil.
Positive energy is not good.

Animating the dead has to do with another thing than just negative energy. In case of Shadows/ghosts, damage to the soul. In case of bodies, destruction of said bodies preventing raise dead and the potential to bring destruction unto the prime material itself by creating a creature that sustains itself on negative energy. While not evil, Negative energy is the force that drives the world towards entropy (wilting, decay etc).

Control undead is not evil, it does not have the Evil descriptor. Although destruction/curing is prefered, Control undead has plausible uses.

[chad878262]

Well if I recall priests of Wee-Jas (really not sure about the name, but I think that's right) could choose to turn or rebuke undead, but if they rebuke they also can only spontaneously convert negative energy spells(inflict wound) instead of cure spells. Since rebuke was only available to evil priests or those that convert negative energy it stands to reason it's considered to be evil.

[Lockonnow]

what kinda undead do not have a soul.

[Hoihe]

Well if I recall priests of Wee-Jas (really not sure about the name, but I think that's right) could choose to turn or rebuke undead, but if they rebuke they also can only spontaneously convert negative energy spells(inflict wound) instead of cure spells. Since rebuke was only available to evil priests or those that convert negative energy it stands to reason it's considered to be evil.

The reason it's considered to be "evil" priest ability to convert spells to Harm is due to the definition of Good, Neutral and Evil.

Good: Alturism, respect for life. Goal = Nurture
Neutral: Self preservation
Evil: Destruction, survival of the fittest. Goal = Destroy, undo.


You essentially ask your god to allow you to harm and destroy with no constructive benefit when you convert your spells to their harm variants. You essentially ask your god to allow you to recover, heal which will always benefit life when you convert your spells to their heal variants.

A druid, a neutral cleric or something similar might find equal use in both destruction and healing. A good person would know ahead of time that they need to destroy or fight, and prepare accordingly, not on the spot. An evil person likewise.

Positive energy: Nurture life
Negative energy: Sap life.

Neither is good nor evil. As a druid would say, you need to quell the weak, the old and diseased so that the young may prosper.


Controlling undead relies heavily on intent and the amount of choice the caster has.


As for undead with souls..

Corporeal undead do not have souls, they are reanimated corpses that sustain themselves off negative energy with a black pearl in the eyesocket as its focus.

Incorporeal undead are generally some variant of a damaged soul, see shadows produced from Vampiric Feast.

Liches have souls, stored in phylacteries. I am not exactly sure on vampires, IIRC they sort of have souls as you cannot Raise Dead someone who was turned into a vampire. Resurrection and higher works, but will destroy the vampire at the same time.

[Flasmix]

It's not evil. It's one of those spells that can be used for good or evil, it's up to the spell caster.

[Karond]

It's generally rather easy with evil.

I think it's only wrack, the summon undead spells, death knell and vampiric feast that are evil. Might be one more spell or not. Barely any spells are evil.

[Invoker]

It's generally rather easy with evil.

I think it's only wrack, the summon undead spells, death knell and vampiric feast that are evil. Might be one more spell or not. Barely any spells are evil.

Bodak's Glare.

[Hawke]

The spell itself isn't evil.


And frankly if everyone around you knows you did not conjure it, and you are able to "control" it , that too is not evil, as it is no different than stunning it, so it can wait to die.

Overthinking the issue always makes things complicated.

[Lockonnow]

we dont have Bodak's Glare.on the server as a spell we have it asa scroll but it is not working