P&P/RP Spell Rule Review Request

[Hoihe]

The point being, Boddynock, that whether it's 12 INT or 30 INT, PCs do not know what Players know.

Correct, with an INT of 30 they likely know a great great deal more than all of us.

That doesn't change the fact that the way things are worded now, it doesn't matter if the DM gave a PC knowledge of a spell that isn't in game, because as soon as that DM leaves that spells ceases to exist. IF you attempt to share knowledge of it, the only rule-appropriate response from another PC is to act like you are insane, talking about spells that have never been.

They either exist all the time, or none of the time. Anything else is asking for trouble. And before you say it, the only reason it hasn't led to trouble thus far is because everyone already ignores this rule... And the lack of trouble that has caused tells me that the rule has no purpose.

On spells that never've been... it reminds me,

Wizards are supposed to invent new spells ALL the time. I'd love to see a wizard who would argue that HIS Bear's endurance is different, and is not called Bear's Endurance but Dwarven gut. Considering wizards are stupidly secretive, it makes sense that the same spell would have 9001 names and do roughly the same thing.

I once tried that, but when every barbarian kept asking me to cast Greater Magic weapon on their axes and keen weapon, I gave up.

[Steve]

...e everyone already ignores this rule... And the lack of trouble that has caused tells me that the rule has no purpose.

Wait a minute my Boddynicking friend! WAIT A MINUTE!!

The thing that I think is missing from a general understanding of Skills, be in Lore or H/MS, is that Skills points are representative of the potential to succeed—or fail—at doing any one thing (that being that particular skill).

It isn't just that the more Skill Points you have, the more you HAVE of that skill, it is, quite literally, the better potential you have to Succeed in the instance those Skills are applied/used, depending on circumstance.

Thus, a PC with 1 point of Lore: Arcana may know something that even a PC with 80 points Lore: Arcana might not know. However, it is the DM, after requesting a DC check, will inform either PC of what they may have learned.

[Steve]

All that extra lore and fluff and the details about lands and nations and all that is exactly what one uses to fill out a character history and background.

Just so we're straight on this:

-Unusual background and character sheet requests
Anything that you wish to play that is out of the ordinary, does not appear on your character sheet or in the character creation process, or is untrue to your character mechanically, is to be submitted to the DM team as a player request. The sort of things this covers include unusual heritage, unusual age, a class that doesn't exist in the game, an atypical background, nobility or personal contact with named lore NPCs.

Please note these requests will be assessed with regards to lore and fairness to other players, and the milder and more lore appropriate the request, the more likely it is to be granted. Requests that outright contradict the mechanics or character sheet of your character will almost always be rejected; requests that embellish or add detail are more likely to be approved.

Please note that this is intended only to cover that which is out of the ordinary rather than prevent player creativity. Setting appropriate things which are merely cosmetic, like jewelry, scars, clothing and the like are not caught by this rule. We have also made some rulings on common requests that can be found on the DM rulings thread ((link)). It is legitimate to rely upon those and not contact the team. Setting appropriate cosmetic characteristics that are permitted in the DM rulings thread are never an invitation or permission to play unusual background and character sheet aspects not otherwise approved by the DM team. If in doubt, please contact the DM team.

Failure to submit an unusual background request, being dishonest or not playing by the guidelines the DM team set out for you can lead to the unusual background request being rejected or revoked by retcon. In extreme cases further disciplinary action may be necessary.

[Boddynock]

Wait a minute my Boddynicking friend! WAIT A MINUTE!!

The thing that I think is missing from a general understanding of Skills, be in Lore or H/MS, is that Skills points are representative of the potential to succeed—or fail—at doing any one thing (that being that particular skill).

It isn't just that the more Skill Points you have, the more you HAVE of that skill, it is, quite literally, the better potential you have to Succeed in the instance those Skills are applied/used, depending on circumstance.

Thus, a PC with 1 point of Lore: Arcana may know something that even a PC with 80 points Lore: Arcana might not know. However, it is the DM, after requesting a DC check, will inform either PC of what they may have learned.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it sounds like you are saying the more skilled a person is at a thing, the more likely they are to succeed at the aforementioned thing. That's not really a novel concept, and no one cast doubt onto it so far. Am I misunderstanding your point

All that extra lore and fluff and the details about lands and nations and all that is exactly what one uses to fill out a character history and background.

Just so we're straight on this:

-Unusual background and character sheet requests
Anything that you wish to play that is out of the ordinary, does not appear on your character sheet or in the character creation process, or is untrue to your character mechanically, is to be submitted to the DM team as a player request. The sort of things this covers include unusual heritage, unusual age, a class that doesn't exist in the game, an atypical background, nobility or personal contact with named lore NPCs.

Once again, I am not sure what you were getting at, as simply using lore sources to flesh out a background and a general idea of a character's history and knowledge is both allowed explicitly in what you posted and what I was talking about, but this section I quoted brings up the heart of the question at hand pretty nicely (my emphasis added).

I think what is being asked here is to change this so that knowledge of the existence of spells that exist outside the mechanics not be considered and "unusual background." No one is even asking to cast them at will, just simply have the possibility that they know they exist. I find it lore-breaking and immersion breaking to think that, for example, a reader of Candlekeep doesn't have knowledge of the existence of spells (and other things) beyond the kin of normal folk. I mean, even farmers know that spells like magic missile and fireball exist, so it beggars belief that a wizard, having studied magic practically their entire life, has no knowledge of obscure magics that are not actually available to them.

[Kiran]

Seems like a good argument, I am not very good with lore personally, but all I want to add is:

You have been playing a wizard, level 30, part of some group that likes to expand knowledge, lets take CK for an example.

You have now been rping this char for some time, quite a veteran. I would presume this person would know more spells and even have their own special spells/skills no other wizard has.

It does not have to help them at all mechanical wise, but as mentioned *Snap fingers* Armour into long dress (If female) or a lovely tunic and breeches for males. More than likely these are people who been involved in lots of DM events, been around a while, why not give them something a little rassle dassle like that? Seems completely innocent to me and would be cool rp.

I personally would even give them spells helping them mechanically, but atleast the above is the right step, no?

[Boddynock]

Seems like a good argument, I am not very good with lore personally, but all I want to add is:

You have been playing a wizard, level 30, part of some group that likes to expand knowledge, lets take CK for an example.

You have now been rping this char for some time, quite a veteran. I would presume this person would know more spells and even have their own special spells/skills no other wizard has.

It does not have to help them at all mechanical wise, but as mentioned *Snap fingers* Armour into long dress (If female) or a lovely tunic and breeches for males. More than likely these are people who been involved in lots of DM events, been around a while, why not give them something a little rassle dassle like that? Seems completely innocent to me and would be cool rp.

I personally would even give them spells helping them mechanically, but atleast the above is the right step, no?

Back when I first created Boddynock, an illusionist, I used to do this all the time. I would accompany bards during performances and "create" images to go along with the music, much like television. It wasn't lore breaking, it wasn't ruining anyone's RP, it wasn't giving Boddy a mechanical advantage. It was just fun RP, lots of people enjoyed it and I never got a SINGLE complaint, despite it being against the rules (though to be fair I don't know how long ago that rules was written, so I may have done all this before it was rule-breaking)..