Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote:

Hidennka wrote:Does anyone find it a bit laughable that PCs can just... go and kill Pit Fiends, though?

I mean, if we're taking into account that, ideally, our characters are viewed as level 15... it seems a little unrealistic even with a group. I understand it's meant to be a fun thing, and I think it's a neat premise, but can we at least admit that having people running around talking about how they've been killing the highest ranked baatezu (in their own territory, no less) is a little immersion breaking? Maybe different spawns could be used.

Just my two cents.

Edit: Just saw Munin mentioned the same thing. lol. I'll second that.

You think?!?

Cause the next day, sittin' round the old hat campfire at the FAI, just whittling wood and chatting about "that time I stuck my spear right up the waazuu of the Bhaatzu!."

Yeah, it is laughable. My charcacter thinks the coast is full of lunatics, works I guess.

Hidennka wrote:Does anyone find it a bit laughable that PCs can just... go and kill Pit Fiends, though?

I mean, if we're taking into account that, ideally, our characters are viewed as level 15... it seems a little unrealistic even with a group. I understand it's meant to be a fun thing, and I think it's a neat premise, but can we at least admit that having people running around talking about how they've been killing the highest ranked baatezu (in their own territory, no less) is a little immersion breaking? Maybe different spawns could be used.

Just my two cents.

Edit: Just saw Munin mentioned the same thing. lol. I'll second that.

i am unsure if you have been there or not, but it is not like going to xvarts and slaying hundreds without breaking stride. that place will take you down if you go unprepared. it is no more immersion breaking as you would allow this to be. it is 100% lore compliant.

"immersion breaking" that is an opinion for sure. what you allow to be and not to be is based upon the person playing the character.

avernus is dangerous. should be dangerous. it is not a trip made without the right mix of friends and equipment. or that trip will end in the fugue.

being a video game.. there are mechanical ways to achieve things that a DM would not allow in a PnP game. some of these things can be done in avernus. the same immersion breaking experience can be said for the 13th level character grinding out in troll hills. they (the player) created a mechanical advantage that allows them to do this. its only immersion breaking if you think in the manner of levels, which is in itself, is immersion breaking.

My bad: Bhaatzu should have been Baatezu! Shows you how much a go to Hell. lol.

@ Zanniej: Nice one bud! lol.

Here's my take:

• What's up in the waazuu of the Baatezu?
  
  In the first, for looking, he hates you
  
  In the second, by nature, it creates poo
  
  In the third, looking was a mistake, which is so true
  
  Cause the forth, is the moment, we exclaim: "Whew!"
  
  For the fifth, the stench alone, will surely KILL YOU.
  
  So return to the Prime, where it's safe dude!!!

I should get paid for this stuff!!!

aaron22 wrote:

Hidennka wrote:Does anyone find it a bit laughable that PCs can just... go and kill Pit Fiends, though?

I mean, if we're taking into account that, ideally, our characters are viewed as level 15... it seems a little unrealistic even with a group. I understand it's meant to be a fun thing, and I think it's a neat premise, but can we at least admit that having people running around talking about how they've been killing the highest ranked baatezu (in their own territory, no less) is a little immersion breaking? Maybe different spawns could be used.

Just my two cents.

Edit: Just saw Munin mentioned the same thing. lol. I'll second that.

i am unsure if you have been there or not, but it is not like going to xvarts and slaying hundreds without breaking stride. that place will take you down if you go unprepared. it is no more immersion breaking as you would allow this to be. it is 100% lore compliant.

"immersion breaking" that is an opinion for sure. what you allow to be and not to be is based upon the person playing the character.

avernus is dangerous. should be dangerous. it is not a trip made without the right mix of friends and equipment. or that trip will end in the fugue.

being a video game.. there are mechanical ways to achieve things that a DM would not allow in a PnP game. some of these things can be done in avernus. the same immersion breaking experience can be said for the 13th level character grinding out in troll hills. they (the player) created a mechanical advantage that allows them to do this. its only immersion breaking if you think in the manner of levels, which is in itself, is immersion breaking.

I apologize, but I really must disagree.

It's not a question of how many you are fighting as one might claim of the xvarts, but rather a question of the challenge rating of devils that ranked as Generals of fiendish armies. Most powerful adventuring parties would fear and avoid confronting a Pit Fiend under any circumstance, given one would assume the Generals of the Hells would be even beyond the capabilities of, say, the advanced erinyes, hezrou, etc. Let's not forget tactical use of Greater Teleport, and the armies that would accompany.

It's this very same attitude of 'it's not a big deal' that is the issue in itself, because it is and should be a big deal; so much so it would be near impossible to defeat within the bounds of what is plausible. Your PnP equivalent level is considered half your in-game level, thus Pit Fiends/Balors/etc would be considered to be 40+ HD monsters in this setting.

I admit I wrestled with the ICness of "plunging into the hells". I resolved it by only ever visiting with my second most trolliest character (actually he might be my most trolliest), in characterly trolling the devils.

It worked for me

kleomenes wrote:A shaggy barbarian warrior and a bald man in robes are seen buying a plethora of supplies in Soubar. While they do so, they have a bizzare conversation about heading to some strange, vastly dangerous place with two objectives: to better understand the nature of evil and to sample Hell Beer. It seems these goals were not shared, rather each one an individual goal of one of the men. An unusual feature of the conversation was that both agreed not to kill any foes they encountered, instead subduing them only. For some reason the barbarian seemed to find this highly amusing.

Some time later the barbarian is seen drinking in the Winding Way, and telling those will listen how his name was Cynric, walker on the North Wind, or Cynric of the Greyfox, and how he had drunk the beer of the fiend spirits in their own home.

He talks of fighting many of the fiend spirits alongside the Bald Man, and shows his large warmace proudly. This, he says, he used to beat down several fiend spirits, "leaving them alive because the Bald Man asked", and so they would "remember being beaten by Cynric son of Rigo, who knows no walls".

Heedless of any danger that the fiendish brew might pose, he says the Hell Beer was tasty, but dwarven is better.

It must be said that once the drinking is done, the barbarian is seen visiting the privy for quite some time. Perhaps the Hell Beer did not agree with him as well as he led others to believe.

//// Bottoms up! Cheers!

Hidennka wrote: I apologize, but I really must disagree.

disagreeing part of a healthy productive conversation. no need to apologize

Hidennka wrote: It's not a question of how many you are fighting as one might claim of the xvarts, but rather a question of the challenge rating of devils that ranked as Generals of fiendish armies. Most powerful adventuring parties would fear and avoid confronting a Pit Fiend under any circumstance, given one would assume the Generals of the Hells would be even beyond the capabilities of, say, the advanced erinyes, hezrou, etc. Let's not forget tactical use of Greater Teleport, and the armies that would accompany.

this is why it is a video game. a PnP DM would apply this tactic if he/she didn't want you to be there. instead.. the DM's DO want you there if you are strong enough. so the tactic is not applied.
if this were true to lore though, the generals would go out of their way to recruit if a party showed enough strength to be there combating his soldiers. this is somewhat taken into consideration in the quest for the gold sink. its so clever and feels right.

Hidennka wrote:It's this very same attitude of 'it's not a big deal' that is the issue in itself, because it is and should be a big deal; so much so it would be near impossible to defeat within the bounds of what is plausible. Your PnP equivalent level is considered half your in-game level, thus Pit Fiends/Balors/etc would be considered to be 40+ HD monsters in this setting.

i never wanted to imply that it is not a big deal. it is a big deal. it is a big deal before even getting into avernus. the guardian of the portal will kill you fast. i do not know what the HD is for the pit fiends are. i would not be apposed to making them tougher, but that really does play into the conforming to the powerbuilders if i were to guess. that is not for me to determine. that is what the staff has been created to perform for us. i have gone to the gold sink with quite a few groups. not once have any of them said or implied that it is "no big deal". to many of them it was the most challenging adventure they have undertaken.

i actually think the trip is immersive and epic. the builders and scripters did such an amazing job bringing that world to life. there are small and large details that really show the amount of research and creativity of the teams involved. to call it immersion breaking, to me, is a disservice to the really good work that was put into it. i fully enjoy it


edited to repair quote

Good place to grind.
Park in the epic shop,go to stronghold meet 2 pit fiend,kill.Loot 3 chest and golds.
Open the stronghold gate and lure the big one boss come,kill.5000 gp got,if you are lucky,you can got some epic gears.Then you can back to shop rest again.
The bosses refresh quickly.
A lv 30 pal can solo them easy.

PS:The Baron pit fiend maybe have some bugs,they will idle in there.