Going to Leave the Evil to the DMs

[Ariella]

Your evil factions crave attention while new ones gets it all. It's not the players' fault. The DM culture is friends and like minded people voting for friends and like-minded people into the DM team, which are more than often poeple who played good aligned character and are uncomfortable with evil RP.

DM's are here to help facilitate player RP, Not to create the RP all together. Now over the years i have had countless disagreements with the staff, However i have never had an issue getting events for good or evil groups. Why? Because i make a request and then i follow up with it if the DM's get distracted. Then i push my events and be inclusive. If you can't get four people along with you well then its unlikely to happen.

As to why DM's prefer good events it has nothing to do with them playing good PC's. It has to do with good events being more inclusive and easier. A good event can generally include good, evil and neutral where as a evil event can't include good and a majority of neutral. Now what that means is the DM needs a set group in mind of evil PC's instead of just their spare of the moment event announcement. Also those Mini events DM's make for random adventuring groups, Typically require a good or neutral party because randomly starting an evil event pisses of secretive evil PC's, And would require you to check each PC's character sheet. I can tell you right now if Shar appeared randomly near my PC in anything but an event area i would be pretty annoyed although it wouldn't be the first time.

[kleomenes]

People are not fearful that the Zhentarim have access to Baldur's Gate again. They are pissed ooc that evil got half of their way. AND THAT is the culture of this server.

I can't speak for others but for me I'm stoked for the Zhentarim guild having gained something:

- That they've worked for on and off for years
- That is more baseline FR lore compliant than what we had before
- That is making sense in terms of server lore (as far as I can see it)
- Is being presented in a way to allow "good" RP to have expression in the course of events
- That seems to be leading to the opportunity of some real cut and thrust political and intrigue RP with things going back and forth as to how much of a "loss" for the goodies this is, if everyone keeps a cool head OOC (so I hope people do!)

I'm excited enough that its drawn me to drag my PC out from under a rock to act as a temporary/intermittent foil and give some gloating/conflict opportunities. I only regret I'm a euro so I've barely been on when Wolfshear has during this short return so Selengil couldn't gloat over tea on the Elfsong patio as we planned

The recent plotline seems to show that evil can achieve things on this server of lasting consequence, and that the landscape is dynamic. Hopefully this goes both ways and indicates opportunity ahead.

I'm also super excited at the development this causes for long standing characters, and between them too. I'm noticing this across a couple of my PCs

I'm speaking as a player of one of the most vocal opponents of evil generally and the Zhentarim in particular, whose stated IC goal would have been to oppose this development root and branch. Set backs are often fun to RP, more fun than success - provided they leave some room for resulting RP at all. This one does, a lot of room.

I do think there can be great things in storytelling these days if people play on the basis that while their characters might be in bitter opposition, as players we are playing together. So I hope the attitude you describe JCVD1 is rare or fades over time.

[aaron22]

well steve... when you decide to come back to the dark side, we are always welcoming. i know you will be back. you will get bored.

#addictedtothestruggle

[mrm3ntalist]

People are not fearful that the Zhentarim have access to Baldur's Gate again. They are pissed ooc that evil got half of their way. AND THAT is the culture of this server.

Was there a thread i missed?

[Valefort]

Keep in mind that I missed the last 1-2 years of RP but ...

The other side of the coin is that things hardly ever get better on the Sword Coast for the good guys. It's never about advancing the cause but almost systematically staving off the direst consequences, a permanent rear guard action with little hope and good guys often having to muddy their ideals to get anything done. Can't we just kick the bad guys asses and plant flowers sometimes ? When did that happen last, FAI being taken by Bentley ? What else ?

Ask yourself if the Sword Coast of now is better or worse for the good guys than it was a couple of years ago, answer is : quite worse ! Where did the good guys gained any ground ? Nowhere that I can see. Try the struggle on the good side and you'll get a nice load of frustration as well.

That said I'll echo kleomenes here, I'm OOCly quite happy to see the Zhentarim gaining something since that opens up great RP but I'll also flat out deny that all good guys never fear consequences or evil PCs.

[LISA100595]

People are not fearful that the Zhentarim have access to Baldur's Gate again. They are pissed ooc that evil got half of their way. AND THAT is the culture of this server.

My frienemy Khahanak - I will only speak for myself without speaking for others. ...

This statement is Not even close to the truth. You have no idea what has been going on behind closed doors. There is No OOC animosity... if you think there is or heard there is then it's probably a case by case basis or individual telling you so. Not the norm from what I have seen and heard IC and OOC.

IS there FEAR? .. Oh Yes and it's very real... as real as you can get with a game. BUT this is not Fear for ourselves as much as it is for the NPC's .. the poor unsuspecting commoners that have been dealt a dirty hand.

Keep in mind every action has consequences, even ones created by DM's. How are we going to handle it? Well, you will see.

And P.S. What Kleo said ^^ The Zhentarim worked for this over the course of RL Years! Kudos to them

[Ariella]

Ask yourself if the Sword Coast of now is better or worse for the good guys than it was a couple of years ago, answer is : quite worse ! Where did the good guys gained any ground ? Nowhere that I can see. Try the struggle on the good side and you'll get a nice load of frustration as well.

I echo that, We have lost a lot of ground with changes like no active fist patrols outside of the Gate.

[Wolfshear]

*quietly sips tea*

[kleomenes]

*quietly sips tea*

He'll be back another time to witness it!

[LISA100595]

Scenario:

*quietly sips tea*

good-guy - HEY! *smacks tea out of his hand* That's poisoned!

other good-guy - Why'd you do that? We could have been rid of him for good!?

good-guy - Who are we going to go up against when he's gone? Each other?

[aaron22]

Keep in mind that I missed the last 1-2 years of RP but ...

The other side of the coin is that things hardly ever get better on the Sword Coast for the good guys. It's never about advancing the cause but almost systematically staving off the direst consequences, a permanent rear guard action with little hope and good guys often having to muddy their ideals to get anything done. Can't we just kick the bad guys asses and plant flowers sometimes ? When did that happen last, FAI being taken by Bentley ? What else ?

Ask yourself if the Sword Coast of now is better or worse for the good guys than it was a couple of years ago, answer is : quite worse ! Where did the good guys gained any ground ? Nowhere that I can see. Try the struggle on the good side and you'll get a nice load of frustration as well.

That said I'll echo kleomenes here, I'm OOCly quite happy to see the Zhentarim gaining something since that opens up great RP but I'll also flat out deny that all good guys never fear consequences or evil PCs.

you have a struggle with evil from DM's in the many adventures that you have successfully overcome every week for the last 8 years. evil RP tries to just establish a presence. works hard barely seen and barely heard. lets look at some facts.

the zhentarium is LORE FOCAL and has had a steady presence on the server forever. they like the RWoT are lore focal and work so hard to get the little they have. other non-evil guilds work just as hard and may or may not even be lore focal, and get MORE. regular plot lines. peripheral involvement in other good plot lines. crossover plot lines. these plot lines are more than just fun for the players. they prompt recruiting. they solidify the faction as a part of the setting, even if they are not lore focal. the axis of every major event on this server run through the same dozen good(ish) guilds. this is the struggle. not what you said vale. you are helpful and knowledgeable. but you are seriously complaining "first world" problems. comparing it to starving in the streets.

[Steve]

I am happy for those that see Evil RP generated by Players is "working." I'm sure those playing those Evil PCs are doubly happy. I had to put working in quotes because I'm not sure if 3+ RL years to see a small step in one direction is good progress.

But RE: Situation for Good— Good aligned and morally good groups can have rich manifestations of character in the Status Quo. Sure, this is Baldur's Gate, and not Zhentil Keep, but by Canon Lore the Sword Coast should be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and many adventures and commoners and merchants DIE at the hands of goblins, undead, etc.

Our PCs are outside this reality. How do I know? PCs only "die" when the Player retires them.

Another way to say it is: I've been more or less asking for a DM or a PC to come and kill my various Evil PCs over the years by reason of my PCs actions and attempts. Never once has 1 character experienced jeopardy, or fear. Lots of threats though, mostly idle. Plenty more simply being ignored, or worse, mocked. "Oh look! It's a creepy masked guy lurking in the shadows! He must be really evil—or ugly—if he's too afraid to show his face!" I actually had something like this happen just three days ago. I logged off because of it, since last time I had something similar happen, and I PvP'd those "without fear," I received a bag of shit in Tells about how my high level Character shouldn't be trolling low level areas and what super (person) I was!"

Those experiences alone convince me that player driven Evil RP is lacking.

So yes, I have more negative anecdotes than fit in a Bag of Holding. But again, my point isn't to blame any individuals, be they Players or DMs or both, but to simply express that player driven Evil RP has been so disappointing FOR ME, that I'm over and done with it.

[The Whistler]

- That is more baseline FR lore compliant than what we had before

Now we can finally get to work on lifting the nonsensical evil deity worship ban

[kleomenes]

- That is more baseline FR lore compliant than what we had before

Now we can finally get to work on lifting the nonsensical evil deity worship ban

I'd probably say if my character has left a legacy at all its shoring up LG (Ilmatari) zealotry among the poor of BG. He spent 6 months rping towards that and engaging a bunch of people to do so. So I hope that there's a (non baseline lore) obstacle there!

[thids]

Steve, your main problem with evil (I won't speak for your other PC's because I haven't interacted with you on them) has always been that you detest the idea of being the indian and want the chieftain position too badly. And I'm not saying this to insult you or anything, it's just the vibe I always got from you. I have made a career of playing sidekicks for various head honchos, and I always enjoyed it. I thoroughly enjoyed playing Eliphas' spymaster, and I enjoyed playing that same character being in Ambrose's pocket. I also thoroughly enjoy RPing Selengil's right hand (LET'S NOT GET INTO WHAT HE DOES WITH THAT HAND). Would I like to RP the chieftain sometimes? Yeah, sure. Do I get upset over not holding the chieftain title? No, not really. All of those players have actually afforded me both the spotlight and opportunities to be the chieftain at times. You never seem like you can live with that, with your character's it always seems like it's either the chieftain or bust.




Regarding fear... In the past I would agree with you, but over the past year or so I have had so many characters cower in fear of my own that, I'd be a hypocrite if I said that there is no sense of fear. Finding a way not to be intrusive, while still RPing an intimidating presence helps with the goodies, a lot. They appreciate the fact that you don't shove it in their face, and they often offer a genuine response to your character's presence. My character has about ~45 intimidate, and I do not think I have ever had the desire or the need to whip it out in front of other characters. In fact, I am of the strong opinion that doing so would make them feel as if I'm shoving it in their face, thus achieving the opposite effect. On the other hand, I have found evil characters to be the least susceptible to RPing fear. No matter how you approach them, majority of them will be defiant and try to measure e-peens with you. Then again, everyone reserves the right to have their PC's react to other PC's as they wish, regardless of motivations.

As for NPC's? Put in an effort into typing out your RP, and roll your intimidate then watch them soil themselves. Seriously, the current DM team is highly receptive of such RP from my experiences.