Abolish Read Magic DC 20 Spellcraft Check

[mrm3ntalist]

Oh I complained plenty of it on IRC. So not 0 complaints .

Ha! 0 complaints was an exaggeration then!!!

[Planehopper]

- Items can be used to increase spell craft further
- the cost of these spells at lvl1 are very low.

We are talking 1st level characters here. Starting gold and store items, what is available for spellcraft? How cheap is cheap after we are talking about buying starting gear?

Of course you are right for a character made by a player who has been here forever and mules gold or items. Starting from level 1, starting gold, this is a much taller order and the above factors are overstated.

That aside, what do we gain by having the check? What does it bring to the game? What does it prevent? I am honestly asking. I just dont see it as anything more than an inconvenience. It doesnt seem to bring roleplay (because it cant be aided by a senior caster), only frustration.

[Steve]

What does it bring to the game?

In my opinion, it brings the relation to aspects of learning: learning that your PC must go through, learning that there are benefits from gaining Experience, that things are not just handed to your Character on a silver platter.

...because it cant be aided by a senior caster

It can, if the senior caster would provide to the novice those Items that M3nt is speaking about, so the novice mage can transcribe some spells (then give those masterful Artifact Items back...).

If you are a beginner Player on BGTSCC, and you find it impossible to learn new spells by this mechanic, it is not that you're playing a Solo Game here. Ask others—preferably IC—to help!

That generates RP! Or is generating RP an inconvenience now?!!? /snark

But seriously, I understand the inconvenience feeling, around this (I don't want to come off as insensitive to the desire, I just strongly disagree with it, and more so, see it conflicting against D&D game mechanics as well).

[CrimsonMist]

What about a different approach on this? How about introducing the Read Magic cantrip?

Perhaps have it work like the NWN2 version of Identify and grant a short temporary bonus to Spellcraft (+10 for 60secs for example?) if the PnP version can't be implemented without excessive scripting?

[mrm3ntalist]

- Items can be used to increase spell craft further
- the cost of these spells at lvl1 are very low.

We are talking 1st level characters here. Starting gold and store items, what is available for spellcraft? How cheap is cheap after we are talking about buying starting gear?

How many spells will a level1 want to know? We are talking about level 1 spells. When you get what, 8 level1 spell selections at level1? If you want to play with max efficiency, then there is the check for you and take the risk of losing the cost of a level 1 scroll.

What is the cost of a level 1 scroll guys? What are we talking about here?

[chad878262]

Not to mention there are a lot of low CR area's now, including a transition directly east of Wyrm's Crossing. Plenty of area's to find treasure and even some arcane scrolls! Would anyone argue that Wizards are not still doing more than ok on the server?

I actually agree that it is not accurate as a PnP mechanic, but I don't agree that it makes things too difficult. If anything just hold on to scrolls until you hit level ~7. Until that level you either need to group up or get your hands on some Summon creature VI scrolls anyway.

This isn't PnP though and I think the mechanic is fine as it is. As frustrating as some mechanics are, I think it's important to consider, now and again that without the various challenges leveling would be rather boring and the game would really just boil down to a chat room with graphics. Sometimes we as players (I am definitely guilty) can be our own worse enemy by wanting things to be easier and then we wonder why certain aspects of the game become less fun.. Having lower levels more challenging makes the 'reward' of near limitless power all the sweeter for high level wizards. Take that away and you take away some small amount of the challenge, thus also taking away some bit of the 'reward' as the Wizard levels and moves past that challenge.

[Hoihe]

Why does failing to read the scroll, considering you do nothing with it just read it, destroy it?

[chad878262]

I guess you misread the scroll and it went poof. Pronouncing new arcane syllables you haven't enunciated before is hard.

[aaron22]

i leveled with an orc wizard recently and because we had no access to any purchasable scrolls, we picked up what was dropped or found being resold from the static wares merchants. he still doesnt have the full compliment of spells and the very early levels were very difficult, but it is possible. summon (x) scrolls are dropped like pennies. obviously this means that if you have spells you feel like you really need then you must decide if it is more important than getting the ones that are not on scrolls with your two spell choices.