Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hoihe wrote:
I don't want another DC increases constantly beyond the point of possibility for NPCs to succeed to step over a bunch of rails while walking.

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:The worst trouble for my first hunt of whitetail deer wasn't finding the deer, the selection of tools, finding meat on the animal, skinning it, drying it, avoiding the scent glands, etc.

It was being nine years old and trying to drag 200 lbs of dead weight out of the woods alone.

I'm a software engineer.

I'm not trying to trivialize the experience but hunting, cleaning, and cooking isn't an exact science.

Hoihe wrote:

NeOmega wrote:

Hoihe wrote:Keep in mind that NPC hunters do these tasks daily.

NPC hunters who will reach at most level 2 in some NPC class.

Getting maximum 5 ranks in a skill, with maybe a bonus boosting it to 6 or 7.

Ridiculous DCs for mundane tasks are immersion breaking.

If an adventurer, someone who is the upper 1% of their profession, struggles to complete a mundane task related to said profession - then how the hell does anyone live and not starve to death?

Anything that requires a DC higher than 20 should be an exceptional challenge that happens only if you are pushing your limits. DCs above 30 should be limited to tasks that are not needed for the common man or even soldier to go by their day to day affairs. DCs above 40 should be relegated to heroic acts.

So.. a DC 35 to get some meat from an animal. No hunter NPC will ever pass that with his 4-7 ranks in survival. Not even with take 20.

so both of you did not read the proposal. This is always frustrating, as i hate defending ideas i never made.

the DC determines HOW LONG the extraction process takes.

so AN EXPERT does it QUICKLY, but a novice takes time.

anybody can do anything, given the time and tools.
of course wizards never forget their paring and skinning knives, wax wrap, salts, etc, to make sure the meat doesnt spoil before its cooked, like all the other little tools they bring along for very other "mundane" task.

have either of you worked in a skilled trade? have either of you spent weeks in the wilderness? have either of you spent weeks in the wilderness while practicing your skilled trade? of course not. you either have the tools and xpertise, or you dont. and then carrying around your work bench? ridiculous. wizards shouldnt be collecting dog meat. period. it takes 10,000 hours to become a master at something. I recently have achieved this, and oft my customers underestimate what it takes. i make it look easy and "mundane", but the trick is not knowing what to do when everything goes right. its knowing what to do when something isnt right. and once you are a master, and yeaching others, you realize about 25 - 50% of the time, there are challenges you glaze over, you dont even consider them challenges anymore, but seeing the newb struggle reminds you of everything you learned in your 10,000 hours.

so please dont tell me a learned wizard also is somehow an expert at survival and skinning and dressing battle scarred animals... ...when a wizard probably wouldnt even consider bringing the tools nevessary to do so, much less take the time to learn how.

and animals, dire animals etc, killed in magical battles, have a higher chance of presenting challenges. I know a guy who charges $100 an hour to butcher. and thats his moonlight job. professionals charge more.

I'm a chemist. My laboratory head probably has a modified score of 7-8 in his profession (synthethic chemistry). He does everything casually and easily and without effort. I probably have 1-2, and spend time deliberating how to proceed and refer to manuals to avoid mistakes.

Even if you use it as a function of time rather than DC, your wording went "discourage those who only have 1 or 2 ranks in survival."

Having a single rank in a skill means you went through the effort to understand it and are trained to perform it under duress. Having 4 ranks indicates you spent a very long time at it, or are specially talented and learn faster than others (since you maximized the amount of ranks you can achieve at level 1, and most commoners get to 2/3 by old age).

A person with 1 rank in a skill is not a fool. They are no master by any measure, but maybe below average in profession, and above average outside the profession (after all, they took the time to hone that skill).



Also, our characters are adventurers. They spend 50-200 miles away from any sign of civillization for tendays at a time. If they got past level 2, they know some basic survival through experience.

Your wizard example is flawed. Sure, a city mage will have trouble. But someone who trudges through mud and grime and fire and ice, spends forever out in the wilds hunting those rare ingredients for a spell will know how to survival, and will be well equipped.

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:The point regarding the exact science lends to an idea that not all parts of the animal have to be used, not all considerations of etiquette is necessary. A briefly flame broiled chicken thigh that you deglove the skin from right after isn't beyond a starving wizard's options. It's difficult to give a duration to the mechanic from that viewpoint.

NeOmega wrote:have you ever hiked for weeks, and gone hunting? and you just went out at 9, picked all the right equipment to bring, etc, etc?

NeOmega wrote:i bet, if we made a dressing kit, made it weigh 5 pounds... ...half the players would not bother... ..and that is carrying fake weight.

NeOmega wrote:further more, you killed a dicile deer with a rifle shot, you didnt stand toe to toe with it,mhack it,slash it, and bombard it with magic missiles. furthermore, you dragged it To your car... ...you didnt have to carry ot for days in the wild, after you guarded it while it was bled out so wild animals and goblins, unafraid of you, or your non existant gun or car, tried to steal it and peck at it.

btw, i appreciate those pf you who are being respectful. Iam a little hot right now because i quit forums a lng time ago because of the childishness that is displayed by people. i do not appreciate dishonest discourse, strawmen, and all the other idiocy. i am not Forcing anything on anyone, nor is the proposal an institution of force in any way.

NegInfinity wrote:... you guys are definitely overthinking it. Basically, the moment somebody starts thinking about "realism" in D&D, they're heading in the wrong direction. In the direction of slippery slope to mess it all up.

This is still a game, and it would be the best not to turn it into a deer skinning simulator.

A decent idea would be to go through rulebooks and find dcs for skinning tasks, instead of thinking/arguing about it.

RaiderOne wrote:Actually a cleaner solution would be to give more "parts" per skill ranks.