Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

casadechrisso wrote:Where I really stop though is when this one hit kill is also followed by body mutilation. I already don't see the fun in having a low-level killed by a high level, but if that is followed by roleplaying cutting limbs off or removing my eyeball with a spoon, yes, I will avoid that kind of roleplay by OOC means.

It's also, strictly speaking, not legal.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote:
People who say "I refuse to RP with you / with X group" and actually trying to ignore you / X — what the hell are you ever doing here? This is not simply a bad tone, this is some savagery and is not acceptable imho.

As for the playerbase number decrease — keep banning people for PvP, DM team, good job.

The DMs don't ban needlessly, if they banned someone it was for good cause, otherwise Follow the rules and appeal to the Head DM or higher to find out why.

As people say they wish players would "go with the flow" yet at the same time you have players saying they are tired of "Evil doing this, gloom, death, dark" Honestly Just because a player comes up and slaps you around for some coin, is no different from a Tradeway bandit doing the same. EXCEPT Now you have a player on the other side. This is where RP out Rules and PVP rules come into play. Often time as a joke I will make a low level "Bandit" Sit on the tradeway and try and rob players. 99.99999% of the time I fail and die or get my arm cut off or such. I don't play this PC to win or to even level up, they are purely for the RP of letting people have a "win" or a moral "lose" while you may be a lawful good guy that just killed this tradeway bandit, I only became a bandit cause some strom or something destoryed my fishing boat now and now I am trying to make enought coin to feed my sick family.

You take the time to hear his story you feel sorry for him give him about 200 gold and now he runs off saying he can retire as thats more gold then his boat and home was worth combined.

Let me ask you What stopped you from Killing him? Because I am a players? He was still just a bandit on the road. What if next time it was a bandit lord? (maybe a DM spawned them in) you never know and should treat each the same as you RP around. ((No I am not saying dont kill the bandits that attack you on the tradeway. I am saying Going with the flow only works to an extent))

I believe a better Direction for this topic would not be what we don't like but What we do, How can we improve our community and ourselves to bring in a larger and more co-op player base.
There are new and old players that come and go, Real life gets in the way from time to time.

What can YOU do to help fix the problem and not ADD to it?
Is what you are typing now going to cause more problems?
Are you going to let Events of the past dictate your overall PC path?
What are your IC goals and OOC goals?
Who or what can help you achieve them?
Lastly, Is it something the Staff can help you with? Is it an Item in game? mechanic? Person? Rule? Location?

What is going to help us as a whole!

Deathgrowl wrote:Hullo. I just wanted to drop in and say:

Subject: Forum Rules

all_distorted wrote: 2. "Flaming," personal attacks, disrespectful, derogatory, threatening, insulting, or negative comments directed towards or about another member of the community will not be tolerated. This encompasses "trolling," or posts purposely intended in instigate a member of the community in order to create any of the above or disrupt the discussion.

3. If you have an issue with any other player or member of the staff OOC or ICly, do not post about it on the forums, instead use personal messages to solve it.

I also want to point out that recently, I've heard several players having left because of being targeted by PvP nonsense. PvP should never be a goal. It should be a tool used to handle certain kinds of conflicts.

In fact, conflict shouldn't even be a goal: Conflict should be a consequence of opposing goals.

And either way, every time make sure that all parties involved are enjoying the interaction. Otherwise you're just griefing.

This is quite arguable, especially the last. This is impossible to achieve the utopic situation where 100% of interractions would bring only joy to everyone who takes part in them / watches them, and considering the interractions where at least one person didn't get what (s)he expected as a griefing is simply absurd. No matter how respectful you are, someone would ALWAYS be displeased no matter what you do, but such is life.

I know what it is like to be banned for PvP. I didn't leave the server, but was about to and retired my favorite character (although it lasted only one week). I am not saying that we must turn the server into the FFA PvP battleground, but if you stop seeing everyone who is interested in PvP as a griefer it would be a good start.

casadechrisso wrote: Well, lately I've seen so many posts by trigger-happy PvPers who consider every roleplay out basically cheating, or my character is only given the RP out "run you coward", which would not be IC for a proud warrior type, so before I get complaints about roleplaying out I take the one-hit kill and move on.

Where I really stop though is when this one hit kill is also followed by body mutilation. I already don't see the fun in having a low-level killed by a high level, but if that is followed by roleplaying cutting limbs off or removing my eyeball with a spoon, yes, I will avoid that kind of roleplay by OOC means.

If you read carefully, the complaints come about the abuse of RP out system, about the situations when some random human encounters a group of hostile drow somewhere at Kro's, says to them something like "Be gone, filth" and continues grinding while ignoring drow presense. RP out system actually provides you a RP challenge, a chance to show a quality tricky RP in order to avoid the bloodshed. Although "Run away or die" is in fact logical outcome in many situations, you are free to invent anything else yourself and try to RP it! Trust me, sometimes a creative approach turns those random hostile encounters into really cool unusual plots.

As for cutting limbs, body mutiliations etc, this is against the rules unless you give a clear consent, so this is actually a situation where you can say OOCly "I don't enjoy this stuff" and I don't really know anyone who won't stop after it.

casadechrisso wrote:

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote:
Also, in my opinion there is too much OOC bargaining here, like really too much. I really want more spontaneous stuff where players improvise and roll with any IC consequences, where they actually do their best to win in the not-so-predictable situations. I understand that sometimes OOC clarifications are necessary, but I see really too much of it lately.

People who say "I refuse to RP with you / with X group" and actually trying to ignore you / X — what the hell are you ever doing here? This is not simply a bad tone, this is some savagery and is not acceptable imho.

As for the playerbase number decrease — keep banning people for PvP, DM team, good job.

Hm, okay, here's one of my recent problems with the playerbase, and that's way too trigger happy PvPers. I don't play this game for PvP, I don't like it, and first and foremost I don't want to powerbuild my characters for PvP, I want to make fun builds with roleplay value that I enjoy playing, not characters that simply can stand a fight vs. an epic level powerbuild.

Now, I don't want to be a party pooper either, and I have absolutely nothing against in character confrontations, so if someone wants to slice my character in half for shits and giggles I let them have it - not even putting up a fight, because as a low teen level why would I even try against a +++ character. Do I enjoy it? No. Do I let them have it? Well, lately I've seen so many posts by trigger-happy PvPers who consider every roleplay out basically cheating, or my character is only given the RP out "run you coward", which would not be IC for a proud warrior type, so before I get complaints about roleplaying out I take the one-hit kill and move on.

Where I really stop though is when this one hit kill is also followed by body mutilation. I already don't see the fun in having a low-level killed by a high level, but if that is followed by roleplaying cutting limbs off or removing my eyeball with a spoon, yes, I will avoid that kind of roleplay by OOC means.

Simple Ruling on this one as it was posting in the past ((if you know the link feel free to post it for me))

Beyond PVP the only thing a winning player can do is choose if you are Knocked out or "dead" Beyond that, nothing more is to happen after PVP with out BOTH PC OOC CONSENT!

A note to all my Orc (and Drow) RP thats are a part of this kinda of RP.

Stop. Take a step back and listen to your fellow players. I know the urge of wanting to leave a mark or have your evils spread about. How ever what you do not causes more problems then solves. A better option is take those few you have captured that did Enjoy the RP and are ok with such and have them spread the tale, post about it or something. Ask them OOC to do so. You don't have to kidnap someone once a week, and if you want to do it as a RP for your group put in a request for a DM, or Find a player whom is really bored ((Like me)) and have them Roll up a PC that can be used as a place holder or such.

As I learned from playing Dah Kogan, if your group continues down this path players will simply not wish to interact with you. For those few whom love the PC they made it becomes unplayable. I sadly Deleted Dah Kogan because after what happen with the Kogans People refused to play with me. I died a lot, and his build quickly fell off as I could not gain levels anymore with No one to RP with and no one to grind with I quit the server for over 2 years.
Dah Kogan I put so much effort into his backstory, his RP, his goals and everything about him. Was a simple and Fun PC that I regret every day for Deleting.

Point is this. Pick RP over victory! You will not always capture your target, its ok to lose a hunt once in a while. Its ok to fall, as we get back up that RP is what builds our PC and makes the game more enjoyable then anything.

Hm, okay, here's one of my recent problems with the playerbase, and that's way too trigger happy PvPers. I don't play this game for PvP, I don't like it, and first and foremost I don't want to powerbuild my characters for PvP, I want to make fun builds with roleplay value that I enjoy playing, not characters that simply can stand a fight vs. an epic level powerbuild.

Now, I don't want to be a party pooper either, and I have absolutely nothing against in character confrontations, so if someone wants to slice my character in half for shits and giggles I let them have it - not even putting up a fight, because as a low teen level why would I even try against a +++ character. Do I enjoy it? No. Do I let them have it? Well, lately I've seen so many posts by trigger-happy PvPers who consider every roleplay out basically cheating, or my character is only given the RP out "run you coward", which would not be IC for a proud warrior type, so before I get complaints about roleplaying out I take the one-hit kill and move on.

Where I really stop though is when this one hit kill is also followed by body mutilation. I already don't see the fun in having a low-level killed by a high level, but if that is followed by roleplaying cutting limbs off or removing my eyeball with a spoon, yes, I will avoid that kind of roleplay by OOC means.

While I can agree with the body mutilation part, I feel exactly opposite. I don't do a lot of PVP, but I do enjoy it now and then.

Not to say you're doing it - but I consider it a huge turn-off when people avoid PVP, simply because they know they're lower level and most likely going to lose. If my dwarf runs into the orcs of the north, there'd most likely be PVP, and I'd lose in a heart-beat, but my character would do it anyway, whether he was level 1 or level 30. I'd feel the same way if bandit-players were holding a road or bridge hostage.

I guess it's just a matter of preferences

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: This is quite arguable, especially the last. This is impossible to achieve the utopic situation where 100% of interractions would bring only joy to everyone who takes part in them / watches them, and considering the interractions where at least one person didn't get what (s)he expected as a griefing is simply absurd. No matter how respectful you are, someone would ALWAYS be displeased no matter what you do, but such is life.

That's just proving my point, though. If people aren't enjoying the experience, you're coming at it from the wrong angle. If people involved aren't interested in PvP and you still force that sort of interaction on them, you're doing it wrong. PvP is a tool. Not an objective. Find goals that will engage people, whether they like, dislike or just don't mind PvP. And make sure that you're going in directions where people can engage with your goals without having to resort to PvP.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: I know what it is like to be banned for PvP. I didn't leave the server, but was about to and retired my favorite character (although it lasted only one week). I am not saying that we must turn the server into the FFA PvP battleground, but if you stop seeing everyone who is interested in PvP as a griefer it would be a good start.

If you're interested in PvP, there are better games for it. I've heard there are also better NWN2 servers for it. I'm interested in stories and characters. I don't like PvP. I also don't dislike it. I don't mind it, in other words, as long as it is treated, as I said, as a tool rather than an objective.

Well I think Valefort is gonna clap his hands when I say this, but I actually think the sense of achievement in the game has become really low and easy to obtain, while not being satisfactory either.

By that im strongly referring to the availability of items that are quite frankly irreplaceable, such as +4 longswords with +2 vampiric and d4 massive criticals. No character should by any means have better weapons than these, which as for sale in the stores for near every one. That turns the server in to a grind, rather than an adventure, people slave away to get their gear and hit 30 for a period, then find that there is little to nothing to persue outside of DM sponsored plots and what player interactions can be arranged.

I've been here for a long time now and I didn't like the old state of the server either, where certain groups of players had access to weapons of this power level, while others didn't. The loot script changes over the last few years helped a lot, the epic stores ruined it to a certain extend, along with the removal of level requirement on gear, there is only one type of valueable gear on the server now and its end game appropriate gear.

Gear and character building is for me the essence of the NWN engines, every one who likes making a build in this engine plans towards that sweet level 30 end result, but the journey to get there has been reduced greatly and where I didn't like it being near impossible to get "perfect gear" before, I certainly enjoyed the journey of progress for my characters.

All that aside however, id like to echo some of Hoihe's points, in particular concerning our DM staff. I've had the pleasure to be in a few events with the present staff, of which I can remember 1 of (which happened so spontaneously and was so immersive and fun it made me rub my head when I was later informed by a player, it was retconned and never happened) , it seems to me most events are scheduled by groups of players or guilds, or otherwise tailored to cater to a few individuals. This creates a sense from onlookers that X group or X player receives more attention your own efforts are redundant in the larger and smaller plots.

I've been away for a year, so its very unfair of me to state this based on a few weeks of being back, but prior to leaving and among now retired DMs, there was a tendency to make address to certain players that was derived from their player experiences with X member in their event, from NPC side of things. This to me often resulted in neglect of other players in these events and dissuaded any interest in pursuit of their plots, on my part.

It seems to me that most the DM driven plots are part of the campaign for the given year and once they reach a certain point of player involvement, it becomes a closed group or there is too much emphasis on forum posting. It might make me unpopular for saying this, but by what means is a player deemed worthy for an in game reward, as result of forum RP, when hundreds of others are trying their hardest and might just fall short of personal preferences and there for receives nothing? You know who you are and this has always sat poorly with me.

I might be weird, but I used to DM on two servers in NWN1 and though ive written more lengthy plots to make a lasting campaign for players too, I primarily made spontaneous events to help the world come to life and seem immersive. Embodying NPCs to make tedious selling of items a RP experience, or your sunday walk in the woods an encounter with a dryad in despair. Few things that would influence the grander scheme of things, but make for adventure and an out of the ordinary excitement about experiencing the world and what many mysteries it holds.

Ive seen a few such events the past couple of days from Soulcatcher and Dragonclaw, I hope the team would consider making greater effort at catching people on adventure and molding it in to an event, rather than people catching an event. I try and play with the mindset that a DM is watching all the time, thus responding to monsters conversation scripts and other wise offering battle prayers, charges and perhaps cliche lines, but the few times a DM actually shows up and makes the scenario meaningful for your character, its worth it. Immersion and bringing the world to life is key motivators for me and it happens too seldom im afraid.

On a player side of things, people are very occupied with their factions and how to promote their circle of influence, this has been a tendency for years on end. To me factions exist as a means to create tension with other factions and give your characters intrigue and drama, a sense of conflict or meaningful alliances, not to be your closed circle of trust. Maybe im misinterpreting a lot here, but apart from the Elder Circle I dont see any other guilds trying to reach out with public involvement for non members, or interacting much without a self serving agenda. Taking whichever piece of information or power they can, back to the safe confines of restricted guild halls and private conversations. This is a natural order of things, but id like to encourage people to be more inclined to bounce off of each other, or as your guilds dwindle in activity and decline to inactivity, you find yourself in Hoihe's shoes and missing many friends and shorter on motivation to play (not saying that is Hoihe's sole reason, but one of the ones he listed , sorry for using you as an example here mate).

Just my immediate thoughts on a few things.

Can we at least remove some of the more illogical transitions and most of the fast travel options... that alone would make the world feel a bit bigger?

Newer-ish player here!

I've noticed the same thing with the drop in activity as well. On my part, I haven't had much inclination to log on because I don't run into many other people when I'm ingame, and it's tough for me to do anything alone. Furthermore I currently play an elf and it seems that right now, there's a lot of Underdark/drow roleplay going on, which means that I can't really interact with the majority of the active characters without it turning into "an elf, kill it" PVP.

On top of that, I've noticed a fair bit of OOC bashing on players over the characters they choose to play or not play - like "surfacers are losers, real roleplayers go UD" and so on. It's kind of discouraging.

KOPOJIbPAKOB wrote: If you read carefully, the complaints come about the abuse of RP out system, about the situations when some random human encounters a group of hostile drow somewhere at Kro's, says to them something like "Be gone, filth" and continues grinding while ignoring drow presense. RP out system actually provides you a RP challenge, a chance to show a quality tricky RP in order to avoid the bloodshed. Although "Run away or die" is in fact logical outcome in many situations, you are free to invent anything else yourself and try to RP it! Trust me, sometimes a creative approach turns those random hostile encounters into really cool unusual plots.

As for cutting limbs, body mutiliations etc, this is against the rules unless you give a clear consent, so this is actually a situation where you can say OOCly "I don't enjoy this stuff" and I don't really know anyone who won't stop after it.

No, it wasn't that complaint I was referring to, and it wasn't anything you said either (in case this one came from you), I just browsed the PvP threads and was quite taken back about the general attitude by some players regarding the roleplay out rule, especially the aggressive tone towards people who just like PvE and Roleplay.

Now, the body mutilation thing might be something which was fine with both parties, I can't say what was said ooc, I only saw the in character posts about it. We (you and me) had two situations and they were not of the kind that I'd avoid you in the future. I must say though that after reading the RP threads on the forums I was scared shitless about what your group would do to my characters, and glad that it didn't happen... although, if I read your RP post right Nive should be dead by now...?
Anyway, so far I was given my roleplay outs and everything so I don't complain, however I must say that alone as a low level vs. a group of 6 who wants to kill you it's very hard to come up with a witty, smart way to roleplay out, and I'm sure my roleplay could only be considered weak if not nonexistent in those situations, because yes, it is intimidating and I was scared.

V'rass wrote:Can we at least remove some of the more illogical transitions and most of the fast travel options... that alone would make the world feel a bit bigger?

There is no point to this at all if you ask me, since teleporting is the go to method of transportation and by doing this, you just make it even more lucrative to make UMD or caster characters. The transitions should really not be an issue, server size is reasonable and you can always take the long route of the Trade Way.

This is a small convenience to me, I find it a much larger issue that every character is a teleportation addict, wand using, epicly geared, balor slaying, demi god or avatar there of. Besides, lack of transitions and purpose for given area's was the reason for their eventual merging, along with server space limits. Did you ever go south of the Cloud Peaks for any other reason than killing lizard folk before? How often do you visit the misty forest? Or the northern high moors? This to me really cant be a reason for dwindling activity, quite the contrary.

A Small Cute Cat wrote:Newer-ish player here!

I've noticed the same thing with the drop in activity as well. On my part, I haven't had much inclination to log on because I don't run into many other people when I'm ingame, and it's tough for me to do anything alone. Furthermore I currently play an elf and it seems that right now, there's a lot of Underdark/drow roleplay going on, which means that I can't really interact with the majority of the active characters without it turning into "an elf, kill it" PVP.

On top of that, I've noticed a fair bit of OOC bashing on players over the characters they choose to play or not play - like "surfacers are losers, real roleplayers go UD" and so on. It's kind of discouraging.

I am sorry you are running into such, This Is not how I personally she the server should be. I have tried to play in the Underdark however, some of the Hostile RP ((all IC and fits the RP down there)) And the lack of knowledge of the underdark make me refuse to play such. I feel the underdark is a whole different ball game down there.

As such There is nothing wrong with being a surface player, and while hard at times there are people just waiting for someone low level to log in and join up with. Most players I have seen sit and RP on their Epic toons ((safer option then grinding and more Xp)) and then log on a Low level when there is a group to play with. I myself am happy to have new players on the server and cant wait to RP IG with you.

On a side note, Personally these Comments about Surface or UD or PVP/No pvp are some of the reason our Server doesn't Grow. We focus so much on the bad that this is what New players are seeing and makes them not want to play. we should be working together to have RP flourish and grow. I still remember my first couple of PC when I didnt worry about Builds or items just RP.

My halfling that got lucky and shook hands with a man that tried to inflict Crit wound cause I tried to pick his pocket.

The same halfling being turned into a statue by FAI by Rhys for trying to pick his pocket!

Or my Elven wizard that learned of Doron Amar from Bre'teas an AMAZING Sorcerer that showed me so much and the RP made me Love playing an Elf/caster

A Small Cute Cat wrote:Newer-ish player here!

I've noticed the same thing with the drop in activity as well. On my part, I haven't had much inclination to log on because I don't run into many other people when I'm ingame, and it's tough for me to do anything alone. Furthermore I currently play an elf and it seems that right now, there's a lot of Underdark/drow roleplay going on, which means that I can't really interact with the majority of the active characters without it turning into "an elf, kill it" PVP.

On top of that, I've noticed a fair bit of OOC bashing on players over the characters they choose to play or not play - like "surfacers are losers, real roleplayers go UD" and so on. It's kind of discouraging.

QFT on the OOC bashing - be it for choosing to wear certain clothes on a PC (I used to do it too when I was more immature, much to my present-day shame), be it for emoting in detail/without enough detail, be it for not wanting to deal with permadeath/mutiliation/torture/mindbreak, be it for not mimicking Dragon Age: Origin's broken, backwards society in a setting that was designed by a literal hippie.

The whole shtick of "real roleplayers do X" is rather off-putting for how subjective it is. We all have different things we gain from RPing - for me it is immersing myself, for others, it is story or whatnot.

Edit: @Tankteddy I really wish the systems were built more friendly towards level gaps.

Hoihe wrote:
Edit: @Tankteddy I really wish the systems were built more friendly towards level gaps.

Its honestly not about Level Gaps, due to the level of the server monsters and Combat ECT, Everyone focus on a power build so they are "Useful" Yet it should not be that way, You cant Skill Dip or anything if you go anything less then max on Spot it is useless against anyone with Hide ECT, Again its more or less a balance thing. I would love for it to be a simple fix but it cant be, we simply need to move away from being "all powerful" and more about "We work well together, my abilities work with yours."

casadechrisso wrote: No, it wasn't that complaint I was referring to, and it wasn't anything you said either (in case this one came from you), I just browsed the PvP threads and was quite taken back about the general attitude by some players regarding the roleplay out rule, especially the aggressive tone towards people who just like PvE and Roleplay.

Now, the body mutilation thing might be something which was fine with both parties, I can't say what was said ooc, I only saw the in character posts about it. We (you and me) had two situations and they were not of the kind that I'd avoid you in the future. I must say though that after reading the RP threads on the forums I was scared shitless about what your group would do to my characters, and glad that it didn't happen... although, if I read your RP post right Nive should be dead by now...?
Anyway, so far I was given my roleplay outs and everything so I don't complain, however I must say that alone as a low level vs. a group of 6 who wants to kill you it's very hard to come up with a witty, smart way to roleplay out, and I'm sure my roleplay could only be considered weak if not nonexistent in those situations, because yes, it is intimidating and I was scared.

Well, since you've read the journals, you know that we came there not to bully low level adventurers, it was a guild event. We are not stalking the people, we are not intentionally looking for PvP. We are doing our own orcish stuff and plots, but in case we occasionally encounter people during those events, we are treating them with hostility (as orcs should), although we are respectful to others and constantly giving RP outs. We don't mind being defeated too and can accept it, some of the guild members even play 1 life characters who'd be permakilled once they lose a PvP.

About Nive being dead: this is what my character assumed when she was left in the cave and he has no idea what really happened to her (in fact she's obviously alive). As for all the gore: this is again how the orcish religious sect should be roleplayed, every single victim mentioned was alright with it.

Deathgrowl wrote: If you're interested in PvP, there are better games for it. I've heard there are also better NWN2 servers for it. I'm interested in stories and characters. I don't like PvP. I also don't dislike it. I don't mind it, in other words, as long as it is treated, as I said, as a tool rather than an objective.

So you are claiming that I am some kind of PvP monger and showing me where's the door, cool. Too bad I am not, and "stories and characters" are and have always been at the first place for me, but it doesn't mean that I must refuse doing any PvP, stop seing the world in black & white. PvP is an important part of the experience alongside with RP, plots, character development, socializing, etc etc, and in my opinion it doesn't ruin the immersion unless its PvP for the sake of PvP (but once again, it's not my case).