Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Why would you need mirror image wand on a bard...?

Yes, the FS/BG or paladin has a buff preparation that is over a minute long, whereas the monk you are talking about is ready-to-go. But that monk is much more gear reliant. The FSes need dodge boots and AC necklace. Even with +3s there, you're easily good to go.

Karond's dwarven defender is much more in your monk's area, except this has even higher defenses with the 15/- DR and absolutely massive saves and HP. It also has decent AB and the damage is absolutely acceptable for something so defensive. Gear is a thing here as well, of course, but when you are at ~60 AC with +4 gear, you're at ~55 with +3 gear. So you're still pretty good on defenses with lesser gear. And again, that 15/- DR is pretty good regardless of gear.

If you want something super great for grinding that isn't buff dependant, I'd say dwarven defender might be the best one. Alternatively, various glass cannons may be just as good for a non-buff character. WM/FB is all about killing the mobs before they kill you. Get in an UMD class in that, and you can use some scrolls for spell mantles and stuff if and when you need that.

Other than that, a build with HiPS is also not a bad idea for a non-buffer. HiPS is just maybe the best defensive feat in the game. You can build a strength hipser, for instance. Say ranger22/assassin8, dual wielding with 14 dex and high strength. Or a fighter/tempest/wm/shadowdancer or fighter14/rogue3/tempest5/assassin8.

Monk20/fighter4/shadowdancer6 (or monk25/sd5 on a race that would get xp penalty - maybe not a problem with 100% RCR) with dexterity focus is also pretty good on the defensive stuff, as it gets both hips and epic dodge. The damage here is going to be on the lower side, but with expose weakness changes, the bleed from dexterity damage may be pretty good. This was the only real monk build before wisdom to AB was added to the server, and there were a decent amount of these monks doing pretty well.

Deathgrowl wrote:Why would you need mirror image wand on a bard...?

I dunno what I was doing wrong, but I kept running out of Mirror Images! D:
They wouldn't last through the dungeon AND boss fight. L2 Bard, I guess?

The DD build looks tempting, but I think I'd miss monk speed.

PvE is really about learning curve rather than build. Wizard is the most powerful, but has the steepest learning curve and requires the most meta-knowledge of areas for a speed run. Monk is a fast runner with limited action needed from the player. HiPster is similar in being able to run around, HiPS last second, slam through whatever mob and on to the next. However, if you don't know what you're doing you could get fugued pretty easy. High AC, low damage characters like Dwarven Defender or Dragon Druid are near impossible to die with, but relatively slow to clear an area. Many other builds have similar abilities, if you know how and when to use them. End of the day I would say for PvE FvS 26/ R4 is still the easiest to clear content quickly, stay alive and loot all but the white dragon. Sure, Paladin/Cleric/Blackguard for EDM is nice for a damage boost and all, but you can do similar with wands of Flame/Frost Blade, Holy Sword (LG only), Bless Weapon, etc. Meanwhile, evasion means you don't need to worry about wasting spells on regenerate every time you eat an epic trap since even your reflex saves will be awesome when buffed.

However, I personally don't care much for Favored Soul or melee Clerics in general. Just a personal preference I suppose. If you similarly don't care for them, you're going to get bored quick, in which case STR or EDM Bard, or any of the other options listed are going to work better for you. Playing what you enjoy is always more important than what is objectively most powerful. Some folks think HiPS Sneak Attack builds are boring, but with the right mix to give them a speed boost I find there can be a lot of areas to challenge yourself against where there is danger of getting destroyed whenever you leave stealth requiring you to pick targets carefully and kite enemies or otherwise find ways to separate them from the pack. When you can pick your terrain and chose which enemies come to you and which ones you go up behind, it becomes easy pickings. Get over confident and fail to scout the area to ensure you know where all the enemies in an area with dangerous enemies (like any caster mobs with IGMS or save or X spells) and you are likely going to end up having a chat with Myrkul.

Sorry for the tangent, but I feel strongly that what is most powerful when played perfectly is not what is most powerful for the individual. There are nuances even in some of the simplest builds that can make it more powerful when played by an expert with that style character.

chad878262 wrote:Sorry for the tangent, but I feel strongly that what is most powerful when played perfectly is not what is most powerful for the individual. There are nuances even in some of the simplest builds that can make it more powerful when played by an expert with that style character.

I've been having similar thoughts, especially since Bard/Rogue wasn't working out for me. After hearing so much about it, I was like, "Man, maybe I just don't know how to play this thing."

You put it more eloquently though.

chad878262 wrote:Some folks think HiPS Sneak Attack builds are boring, but with the right mix to give them a speed boost I find there can be a lot of areas to challenge yourself against where there is danger of getting destroyed whenever you leave stealth requiring you to pick targets carefully and kite enemies or otherwise find ways to separate them from the pack. When you can pick your terrain and chose which enemies come to you and which ones you go up behind, it becomes easy pickings. Get over confident and fail to scout the area to ensure you know where all the enemies in an area with dangerous enemies (like any caster mobs with IGMS or save or X spells) and you are likely going to end up having a chat with Myrkul.

*raises hand sheepishly* as a newly minted Hipster I can confirm this. There is definite nuance and a learning curve and my loss of XP and chats w/ Myrkul can validate that. I don't know that I'd say hipster is 'boring' because you are right, you have to 'thread the needle' very carefully because you are fragile but deadly on offense. I lamented the class because though you have to be very situationally aware (not at all boring) it is to setup a very basic thing over and over.

I mastered that and there are still times when you are going to get into a situation. The minute you attract more than 2-3 attackers you are in a perilously dangerous situation depending on what is attacking you.

I played the Hipster learned its tricks and then decided that it wasn't really for me in the end. Insane damage output and you have to do the hide / pick-off / kite dance the whole time but lacks other options. I finally settled on the Warlock because of it's boss tanking / killing ability even though my TTK for rank and file monsters is considerably slower than the hipster. All about the trade-offs.

I think the Monk 20/Cleric 3/SF 7 build is effective, fast, and easy to play. But I'm already finding the efficient loot-grinding to be a bit boring and mind-numbing.

On the other hand, the character concept I had for the Bard/Rogue is a lot more fun to RP: a cheery Jergalite who believes her voice of death is given to her by the Final Scribe. But I'm so bad at playing the build. XD

Four years ago I was pretty bad at playing any build... the challenge can be the fun part.... just food for thought.

Arn wrote:. But I'm already finding the efficient loot-grinding to be a bit boring and mind-numbing.

You actually once thought different?!?

Finding or earning a special Item is a true reward within this Game. Looting as an objective is soul destroying.

Well, with prior builds, at least it was a challenge. I'd feel like, "Let's see if I can pull this off..." So I'm talking about playing HiPSters, F/FB/WMs, etc. They're capable of soloing bosses, but you'd better stay on your toes or you're dead in a second.

But with Monk 20/Cleric 3/SF 7, you can waltz in with impunity and slap on heal kits as necessary. That's it.

However, I think her RP identity has started to really solidify, so I might keep her around. I had some enjoyable RP on her yesterday.

so far my monk/cleric/sacred fist is pretty deadly and fun to play so i concurr...

my other char are my main 22 warlock...he's a beast...blasts for 120 with crits and atm with not the very best gear has 47 ac..hard to beat

then my last is a fighter that will eventually go mostly how everyone builds those...fighter/tempest/wm/fb but whereas everyone seem to go 2 hander or sword and board i'll go dual wielding scythes and with some UMD to buff up

and i still have idea for a fighter/sorc/arcane archer/order of the bow character that should do well

then i'd have to try out a sneak build and lastly maybe a mage somewhere down the line

of course since i've only been around for a month and a half actually getting a char or 2 to 30 and doing some high end content would help lol

It depends what you are going for.

The classic and most efficient loot runs such as Cloakwood-LionsWay/TrollClaws/SherpentHills are done faster by WM builds with monks being a close second.

High DC casters ( sorcerers and wizards ) clear the whole cloudpeaks ( FrostKeep/LizardCave/LichCave ) in less than ten or so mins while bards and diviners (FSs/Clerics) are better suited for areas such as the Vault of the dead and the Balor.

If I was to have one build for everything then that would be an STR Bard/rogue. It has the ability to solo every area, with less buffing and also has the skills and abilities to increase gold for selling loot.

mrm3ntalist wrote:If I was to have one build for everything then that would be an STR Bard/rogue. It has the ability to solo every area, with less buffing and also has the skills and abilities to increase gold for selling loot.

This is going to sound insanely n00bish but STR for a bard / rogue? Just so they hit really hard? As neither class needs STR for basically anything skill / power related. Are there some feats that can make STR useful to them or is it just for dmg outlay? Just curious...

Is there a sample NWDB build of this? I'm trying to visualize how this would actually work.

STR = greater AB. Plus high STR + Northlander Hewing is even more damage.

Bard's are not glass canons, so if you take the strategy of "kill it first before it kills me" over "outlast it via defense," you need damage damage damage.

But I'll offer a Bard / Rogue / FRENZIED BERZERKER is a mightier build. Damn that thing hits hard.

It works because 26/4 is getting +8 ab and dmg from inspire. With 14 dex it can cast Cats and wear Mithral Chain, great reflex + evasion for mob nukes.

With 14 dex and cats and 13 cha with a +3 item you can spend the rest on Str and Con. Int 13 for IKD is a good idea but not mandatory.

13 cha and a +3 item still gets 4 spells at each level per day, with Extend you should be okay. 33 UMD means you can use any scroll you could need.

Expose Weakness helps make sure all your hits land, and bleed dmg is nice.

And then the Aria deals massive sonic dmg lots of times per day, in fact your AOE blast capabilities at that pt can get quite high if you equip several perform boosting items

I think I broke it down, did I miss anything?

With the dispel fix B26/R4 has CL30 so it may not hit as hard, but it can loot everywhere, like M3nt said. It has fantastic saves and can pump AC to low 60's for short durations alongside 50% concealment and mirror images. A STR based Bard/Rogue will also have evasion, uncanny dodge, expose weakness to go alongside an attack bonus in the low to mid 40's that can be pumped higher as well. On top of all of this it has full UMD for any scrolls you want to use. Finally, you have hymn of requiem when you need it. Personally I prefer B24/R3/F3 which loses uncanny dodge and 2 caster levels, but gains two feats, martial weapons and tower shields. Popping on a tower shield can pump AC to ridiculous levels when needed and CL28 is good enough against Greater Dispel. If you get hit with mords you use boots or scroll of ethereal jaunt. easy. When Requiem is on cooldown Curse song is about the best debuff in the game.