Perma-death/Mark of Death improvements

[EasternCheesE]

Hidden: show

As soon as few simple things are followed, i don't see how permadeath PC boosts can set a bad precedent or worsen player experience:
1) Permadeath PC can only be RcRd into Permadeath PC.
2) Permadeath PC bonuses are related to experience gain, but not mechanical advantage
3) Setting player's PC as permadeath one is only possible by player themselves and only on their own free will.

If permadeath PC gets 50% more XP from grinding, it doesn't change the life of non-permadeath players at all. In return, people willing to accept the challenge, get a bonus of less grind needed to achieve same things non-permadeath player needs.
In fact, permadeath "reality" is something that should be factored into regular PC RP as well. Our PCs are not aware they are immortal and death is just a walk to fugue with small xp penalty. Though, i saw and see numerous situations where players, knowing their PCs are immortal, show very unrealistic behavior when posed to lethal threat.
For someone who chooses to play Permadeath PC, such things actually become real and they are forced (as they picked it willingly) to enforce life-preservation instinct into their RP as they know their PC can die and his story can end right at that moment.
Doesn't mean every PC should be permadeath PC, but existence of permadeath PC helps to fell things more real and if giving such PCs more XP will encourage people to use it more often, it'd make game only better, not worse.

I don't see anything about it being "a bad precedent", please clarify your words. This topic is not about "Make everyone Perma", it's about "Let people, who chose their PC to be perma, get some QoL stuff as a reward for accepting the challenge".

Gating anything behind permadeath opens the door for gating more things. Sure, "it's more experience" now, but just looking at how governmental politics go for tax breaks ("People who have children are given a tax break!" there's nothing wrong with that. A year or two pass, and suddenly everyone has their taxes increased, returning those who got the tax break to the baseline, while making everyone else worse off. Complaining about this is met with, "just have children/marry" which in our case would be: XP rate reduced across the board, and complaining about it will go "just make a new permadeath character!/take MoD when rcring!" We already have people saying, "just make an alt" if you voice the lack of areas to loot as a level 30. People on the staff saying that).

It's a tried and true method of manipulation and control to give something optional a "harmless benefit", then after it's forgotten about punish everyone "equally" with something bad that just so happens to leave the group that was given a "harmless benefit" effectively unaffected.

1) BGTSCC is not real world and doesn't have very simple thing that makes politics so bad: staff doesn't get any profit or benefit from players. It's vice versa in fact, as staff members invest their time and even real money (Admin) for this project to exist.
2) So, looking at one, i don't see any relation or reason why overall xp gains would suddenly go down out of the blue. It can happen as a part of general decision if this allows for some benefits for server and community as whole, but until staff gets payed for their job, we don't have a single reason to actually try to "milk" community no matter how bad that "milking" even is.
3) Moreover, to me, if you think that by proposing such a way to reward the challenge taken, i mean that we will eventually reduce Non-Perma PC XP or imply other restrictions (which Perma-PCs won't have), it almost looks like an insult. If you extrapolate things to unrelated RL stuff and then draw the line between "EC's proposal" and "How governments take away money from people", it just sounds ridiculous.
4) 50% Bonus XP for permadeath PC doesn't gate anything from Non-Permadeath PC. They still get xp, they still can get to lvl 30. I don't see a single obstacle created on the "road to 30" for Non-Permadeath PC by such a proposal.
5) Speaking of "just make an alt/ just make a permadeath". Nothing stops you from opening toolset and designing areas that your PC can solve with reasonable investments. It doesn't require you to be part of the team, it doesn't require you special secret knowledge, it's just time and dedication. I know that by not being Dev/builder and yet making an area which i wait to be checked by Lead Builder and, i hope, being added to server some time in future when i finish creature blueprints and lore messages. All this i done without having access to server files.

Giving reward for the added challenge is just a reward for added challenge. It doesn't make a player who chose Permadeath PC a chosen one, a better RPer or whatever. It just gives some reward for making their own PC life more dangerous.

[PaulImposteur]

Like I said in my first post, I don't think RCR should be available at all to Mark of Death characters, they should just be a total loss of their investment if they die. It'd force the next MoD to be level 1, which helps fill out lowbie zones again time after time, with new faces.'

Also I was unaware PvP couldn't affect this, it'd be nice to have an option to allow PvP to affect this. Temporary nemeses would be nice.

I play all my chars with a 3 times dead not resurrected = character death. I don’t think Myrkull would just keep sending people back over and over.

This is a really neat idea, I dig it.

[Xorena]

I don't think a permadeath character should be able to RCR at all. If it could, then you could make the most mechanically advantageous character possible and then reroll to your RP character.

I'd like to approach this, briefly, in another perspective that was already mentioned:

This idea, or a version of it, is perfect for facilitating player-conducted "plots". Instead of thinking about it as just a mechanical challenge that doesn't really have a place in an RP environment, I like thinking about it as a tool for easier access to mid level impermanent characters to develop player driven plots. Not a necessary tool, but a tool nonetheless. What are the true downsides to this? It's not like it would be enforced, but simply something else to broaden player options.

I might be thinking too idealistically, but just thought to give that perspective again

A plot character (a sacrifice, or someone to rescue, or whatever) having some exp is not a bad idea but is not difficult to execute with current mechanics. My husband has a few of these in the sub-10 range for this purpose (since level 10 is the free RCR).

[gedweyignasia]

A simple proposal I'd like to make where you'd acquire ALL xp, combat and RP-xp at four times the rate while having the Mark of Death.

The optional permadeath flag was added on the condition that it doesn't confer any additional benefits and doesn't receive any support or remuneration for bugged deaths. If you don't like the way it works, you're welcome not to use it. Players can always permakill their characters at their leisure on their own terms, if they so desire. (You can roll a 1d20, set a number of deaths, or decide that your character dies permanently if they die a PVP death and aren't raised without metagaming before a reset. It's really up to you.)

[PaulImposteur]

A simple proposal I'd like to make where you'd acquire ALL xp, combat and RP-xp at four times the rate while having the Mark of Death.

The optional permadeath flag was added on the condition that it doesn't confer any additional benefits and doesn't receive any support or remuneration for bugged deaths. If you don't like the way it works, you're welcome not to use it. Players can always permakill their characters at their leisure on their own terms, if they so desire. (You can roll a 1d20, set a number of deaths, or decide that your character dies permanently if they die a PVP death and aren't raised without metagaming before a reset. It's really up to you.)

I'm aware I have a choice, and have used it on more than one occassion, for around 15 hours of gameplay. I'm making a suggestion because it's part of helping this server being constructive, like all of these small communities. Things change, I'm sure you remember how much people railed against more xp and loot changes becoming more fair back in the day. There's no need for a 'Take it or leave it' attitude in this sub-forum, it will just make people think there's no point in contributing.

[gedweyignasia]

I'm aware I have a choice, and have used it on more than one occassion, for around 15 hours of gameplay. I'm making a suggestion because it's part of helping this server being constructive, like all of these small communities. Things change, I'm sure you remember how much people railed against more xp and loot changes becoming more fair back in the day. There's no need for a 'Take it or leave it' attitude in this sub-forum, it will just make people think there's no point in contributing.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest we weren't open to ideas; that's certainly the point of this place. It's just this specific feature that there was some argument in Discord or IRC about, and I don't remember it being very pleasant, so it went in with the condition that it was purely opt-in with no benefits. It was a long time ago though, so maybe it's possible neither person is on staff anymore.