Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:55 pm Are there hidden rolls in pnp?

Hidden rolls for what?

The old mines have some doors that do some skill checks. No idea what those checks are. Then in rock run you fall to the ground, again with no skill check shown

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:17 am The old mines have some doors that do some skill checks. No idea what those checks are. Then in rock run you fall to the ground, again with no skill check shown

The falling in Rockrun has to do with the lack of illumination. Getting a source of darkvision (some items grant the feat) is, I think, the only 100% reliable way of stopping it from happening.

As for the skill checks in the silver mines, I think maybe only the people who made that map know what they are for or what the DC is.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:24 amThe falling in Rockrun has to do with the lack of illumination. Getting a source of darkvision (some items grant the feat) is, I think, the only 100% reliable way of stopping it from happening.

I understand that. But how do you fall down? Is it random? Is there a check? Does it happen in pnp this way?

As for the skill checks in the silver mines, I think maybe only the people who made that map know what they are for or what the DC is.

I think more than these people know.

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:18 am

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:24 amThe falling in Rockrun has to do with the lack of illumination. Getting a source of darkvision (some items grant the feat) is, I think, the only 100% reliable way of stopping it from happening.

I understand that. But how do you fall down? Is it random? Is there a check? Does it happen in pnp this way?

It's been a while since I read the relevant code, but I think it's a random roll on a timer, with no checks beyond "can you see in the dark?". 99% sure it's Rasael's doing, but I couldn't tell you if it's based on some kind of PnP precedent.

As for the skill checks in the silver mines, I think maybe only the people who made that map know what they are for or what the DC is.

I think more than these people know.

Possibly, but I do know there's nobody else I'm absolutely certain has this knowledge. Maybe someone willing to dissect the map in the toolset could rediscover it, but as far as I'm concerned, it's lost, ancient lore from another age.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:52 am
It's been a while since I read the relevant code, but I think it's a random roll on a timer, with no checks beyond "can you see in the dark?". 99% sure it's Rasael's doing, but I couldn't tell you if it's based on some kind of PnP precedent.

Its alright and no big deal - for me at least. I just try to understand why things are made the way they are and for the life of me i cant understand this

Possibly, but I do know there's nobody else I'm absolutely certain has this knowledge. Maybe someone willing to dissect the map in the toolset could rediscover it, but as far as I'm concerned, it's lost, ancient lore from another age.

I am having fun rediscovering areas that I havent been to for years. However, I find the specific checks a bit annoying since I do not know what skills are needed to RP finding someone that can help. In addition, i think the checks happen once every reset? I assume it has something to do with traveling to the ud, but still it is annoying to have to wait for a reset to do something you set up for. It is a good thing that i have 40+ characters

Rhifox wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:51 pm My apologies. I screwed up the code a bit and there was a bug resulting in UD characters getting the surface flag instead of the UD flag. This could explain why you got stuck. That will be fixed for the next patch. Returning back to UD as a UD character should now work properly.

Sorry for the problems.

You are too kind. Thank you for everything you do.

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:17 am The old mines have some doors that do some skill checks. No idea what those checks are. Then in rock run you fall to the ground, again with no skill check shown

This part is unrelated to Underdark changes. This map has been in for a few years now and has had those checks for a long while. Only change was moving the Upperdark entrance from ogre caves to here.

That being said, there are such things as hidden checks in pnp. Whether these specific checks should count as hidden checks, I don't know. As I understand, they were made this way so people couldn't purposefully build or buff to beat them, but I think it's rather unnecessary and silly in this case.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:54 pm As I understand, they were made this way so people couldn't purposefully build or buff to beat them, but I think it's rather unnecessary and silly in this case.

It does seem a little strange to me as well. Those hidden checks are one thing I've always hated about that dungeon. Some large portion of that place is cut off from being able to explore. There's several doors I've never been able to open, no matter who I've been with, despite trying multiple times over the years.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:30 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:54 pm As I understand, they were made this way so people couldn't purposefully build or buff to beat them, but I think it's rather unnecessary and silly in this case.

It does seem a little strange to me as well. Those hidden checks are one thing I've always hated about that dungeon. Some large portion of that place is cut off from being able to explore. There's several doors I've never been able to open, no matter who I've been with, despite trying multiple times over the years.

Maybe some things need to be RP’d in order to get access??

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:39 am

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:30 pm

Rhifox wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:54 pm As I understand, they were made this way so people couldn't purposefully build or buff to beat them, but I think it's rather unnecessary and silly in this case.

It does seem a little strange to me as well. Those hidden checks are one thing I've always hated about that dungeon. Some large portion of that place is cut off from being able to explore. There's several doors I've never been able to open, no matter who I've been with, despite trying multiple times over the years.

Maybe some things need to be RP’d in order to get access??

Not a lot of constructive IC reactions to "We triggered an unseen mechanism, but nothing happened. We can't find the mechanism, we don't know how we triggered it, and we don't know why nothing happened." At least the doors on the second level hint at how you're supposed to open them... or at least the ones that don't require you to pass a hidden skill check just to see them. They're still frustrating, because you need to get lucky with loot to open them, but at least they're predictably frustrating.

If you do end up finding someone who can open it? They don't have any notion, IC or OOC, why they were any better at opening it (unless they powerbuilt for lockpicking and can pick the ~DC70 locks). If there is any IC information to be learned about it, it's probably gated behind a DM-assisted research project in Candlekeep, and even they probably won't have any notion of how those doors work.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:23 am

Steve wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:39 am

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:30 pm

It does seem a little strange to me as well. Those hidden checks are one thing I've always hated about that dungeon. Some large portion of that place is cut off from being able to explore. There's several doors I've never been able to open, no matter who I've been with, despite trying multiple times over the years.

Maybe some things need to be RP’d in order to get access??

Not a lot of constructive IC reactions to "We triggered an unseen mechanism, but nothing happened. We can't find the mechanism, we don't know how we triggered it, and we don't know why nothing happened." At least the doors on the second level hint at how you're supposed to open them... or at least the ones that don't require you to pass a hidden skill check just to see them. They're still frustrating, because you need to get lucky with loot to open them, but at least they're predictably frustrating.

If you do end up finding someone who can open it? They don't have any notion, IC or OOC, why they were any better at opening it (unless they powerbuilt for lockpicking and can pick the ~DC70 locks). If there is any IC information to be learned about it, it's probably gated behind a DM-assisted research project in Candlekeep, and even they probably won't have any notion of how those doors work.

A lot of the doors can’t be picked at all. The door leading to the lich room on the first level can. The door in the mindflayer’s room cannot. Actually IIRC only one or two can be picked at all.

And yes I agree. Having an unseen mechanism trigger for unknown reasons doesn’t do much for me RP-wise.

So I went and logged on my UD Svirf monk to try and re-find Rockrun...

Basically I discovered a bunch of changed transitions, ran into the Formian hive thing and ended up running for my life 2 hours later, after racing through umpteen zones, trying all the boats and finding no survival rolls of any sort(he has 13 survival), hidden or not, I decided to come here and saw that there's a way for my Svirf to get to his abandoned home via Forgotton City, great!

The 2 yellow named kuo-toa sharpshooters and 5 tribesmen waiting just at the start of the path had other ideas.

Am I missing something here, or is this going to be the norm to get back to Rockrun and surrounding areas? I gotta say, I like a challenge and all, but dying 10 seconds into a CR30 zone at level 27, just to get to some low CR areas, not to mention my deep gnomes IC home(even if it's empty) is a bit aggravating.

*edit* - invis potions ftw.

The land route is from Ruins of Oghrann. This is easier than the Forgotten City route.

Yes, this is the norm. UD travel is more lore accurate now. Travel to and through the Upperdark is easy. Travel to and through the Middle- or Lowerdark is difficult. Given our 'mechanical level x2' balance moving forwards, typical drow surface raiding parties in pnp are of around 12-14th level, thus 24-28 on BG (Forgotten City is admittedly a high 30, harder than I realized when adding it as an option, but there were no other epic areas to use for water travel. The original plan was to scrap the boat completely, instead we went with a land route and a water route).


We can consider additional leeway for deep gnomes, seeing as, unlike most UD races, most deep gnomes live in the Upperdark.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:58 pm We can consider additional leeway for deep gnomes, seeing as, unlike most UD races, most deep gnomes live in the Upperdark.

Maybe the tunnel run scout in Mist Lake, next to the quest giver for the elemental, could guide Svirf (and ONLY svirf) to Rockrun? And put a passage in Rockrun to Varalla's that has a magical password that only people who speak Svirf can read and the passage is too small for medium characters? (Speak Friend and enter from LoTR but it's Svirf instead of elf).