The "Epic Store"

[Theodore01]

So, based on that, I can say that the first time experience on BG is quite bad. Or was.

Why is that bad at all ?
I remember well, as one of my first characters found his first +4 longsword at lv21, that was a lucky day for me and him

Nowadays, if i find a +4 weapon, meh it's just a +4 weapon.
Some of them barely sell at the auctioneer and most char's (<=lv.10) you meet ingame already own one.

[Snarfy]

When I've last been low-levels (not long ago, on an alt account), and especially since I now know the server, I'm generally always sitting on around 100k gold by the time my guy is ready to progress beyond the gibberling caves/hilltop ruins.

If this is the case, then I can safely say that you are the exception when it comes to accumulating wealth. I too know the server, but have never had that much gold on a character that was under level 10, and I've been here longer than most.

To put things into perspective on how much wealth I've accumulated in 5 years here:
I currently have 11 characters: 5 in the epics, 3 in the 10 - 19 level range, and 3 lowbies. Out of those 11 characters, only one has over 50,000 gold. The most gold I have ever accumulated on a single character was about 500k, and that was by the time he was level 30, and I had run the Nashkel mines several hundred times(under the old 2 chests/reset model). I do not think I have ever bought a single item off of the forum auctions(because I loathe the idea of it, and, to me, typing up haggling/bartering RP sucks stale farts), but I have used the IG auction quite religiously to upgrade the equipment on all my characters.

So, basically...

... the only avenues here are a) trade (which often comes from grind looting success), or b) earning coin (which also is generated from grind looting success).

... unless I decide to engage in a month long power-looting spree per character(kill me now) or engage in tedious amounts of forum trading/bartering under the guise of "RP"(*pukes*), none of the 10 characters I have with less than 50k will ever be able to purchase anything from the Epic store(not to mention that I have no IC inclination to traipse around one of the Nine Hells on any of my characters). I should mention that I took my semi-wealthy character to the Epic shop and bought 4 or 5 items, but I did so purely OOC'ly(and I've barely played since due to disinterest, much less felt inspired to go see this area again). Woohoo?

At the end of the day, the average player is likely going to have to resort to copious amounts of OOC loot-grinding, and/or "gaming the system"(as Steve put it) for months on end to amass enough gold to purchase 1 or 2 of the items in the new shop(and possibly break character and go OOC just to get there).

Hence, I think the ideas of both increasing the maximum selling price per item, as well as epic shop items as possible DM rewards, are ideas worth considering.

[arakes99]

I think upping max sell prices in shops might not be a bad idea. It doesn't help veterans over new players and would help close that gap as lower levels tend to find just as many "Semi Valuable" items as higher ones do since they can hit more chests in a shorter time span on average.

The availability of high quality gear in a shop, regardless of price was a big win I think. I'd like to see a bit more of this at other shops in Baldur's Gate and what not as well, that was there is some nicer gear available without a trip to a place many would not go ICly.

The shop in the Blushing Mermaid already has some very nice stuff, but its a short list and very specific. We could add to that a greater diversity of the same quality as like a "Sub Epic" shop.

[chad878262]

There were discussions around other epic vendors, though not so epic as Avernus, but more similar to Blushing Mermaid. The idea was to have more theme oriented vendors, for example a gnome that sold things like light hammers, hand axes, etc. and eventually a Dwarf near Kraak Helzaak. If anyone wants to work on a store you're welcome to submit to QC via PM and we'll review it, but just realize there is a LOT of work that goes in to doing such an effort. Just ask Tfunke, Karond or Mreider (if he returns). Also realize that anything submitted is likely to have items removed, edited, etc. and that someone still has to get it in game, so it is not a 'quick' process. What we have in the two epic vendors is essentially the work of two separate individuals that did the majority of the work, with QC simply reviewing it and making changes before it gets implemented so anyone willing to champion such an effort is free to do so!

[Thorsson]

At the end of the day, the average player is likely going to have to resort to copious amounts of OOC loot-grinding, and/or "gaming the system" (as Steve put it) for months on end to amass enough gold to purchase 1 or 2 of the items in the new shop (and possibly break character and go OOC just to get there).

I cut the post in the interest of brevity, but I pretty much agree with everything in it.

I've never even got a character close to 200k in all my time here and I think I got to 100k only 2-3 times.

It seems wrong that you have to adopt this playstyle in order to get the best equipment (which is an order better than what you can pick up by other means). TBH I don't think this stuff should even exist on the server and it''s even worse now a level 1 can use it.

[Calodan]

It seems wrong that you have to adopt this playstyle in order to get the best equipment (which is an order better than what you can pick up by other means). TBH I don't think this stuff should even exist on the server and it''s even worse now a level 1 can use it.

But you do not. Two players have gotten gear from me. I think more grinders should take the approach I do! GIFTS FOR EVERYONE! I am currently out of gold though so got to grind it back up!

[NegInfinity]

At the end of the day, the average player is likely going to have to resort to copious amounts of OOC loot-grinding, and/or "gaming the system" (as Steve put it) for months on end to amass enough gold to purchase 1 or 2 of the items in the new shop (and possibly break character and go OOC just to get there).

I cut the post in the interest of brevity, but I pretty much agree with everything in it.

I've never even got a character close to 200k in all my time here and I think I got to 100k only 2-3 times.

It seems wrong that you have to adopt this playstyle in order to get the best equipment (which is an order better than what you can pick up by other means). TBH I don't think this stuff should even exist on the server and it''s even worse now a level 1 can use it.

I think my chars went through something like 400k gold total, but I don't remember having more than about 150k on anyone. Usually by the time I get to 100k, char has to buy something rp-related, useless and expensive.

So honestly, I have no idea how one could accumulate 100k under level 6... except maybe dying few thousand times in starter locations and continuously losing xp, staying in kobold/gibberling ruins for couple of weeks or months. Getting to level 7 is relatively quick, and usually by the time any of my chars may be strong enough to attempt suicidal solo run between fai and beregost (around level 7), they rarely have over 10k gold on them.

[Thorsson]

So honestly, I have no idea how one could accumulate 100k under level 6...

Answer: They don't; they get twinked.

The removal of levels on items would only have made sense if you could no longer twink.

[AC81]

So honestly, I have no idea how one could accumulate 100k under level 6...

Answer: They don't; they get twinked.

The removal of levels on items would only have made sense if you could no longer twink.

Ah you guys ... I don't twink items to different accounts. All my items are either on my mule (I don't trust the banking system just yet) or Draviir (my main). All my gold is with Draviir.

When I last tried 'starting over' I did so with a fresh toon, 1000gp and no twinked gear. He was a dwarven fighter. By the time I was ready to try the Cloakwood Forest by himself (~level 6 or 7) he had around 100k in gold. That's because I know how to roll and play fighters here and also because I know the server. It doesn't phase me if you believe or not. But I'm saying that's just how it can be.
I'll repeat further - you don't have to play this way. You don't have to loot grind or mob grind or RP grind or chase DM events. You can do what you want, just don't complain that you don't have gold if you don't do things that typically provide gold. Clear enough?

P.S. - all my alt's have been deleted. Too boring. I only have 1 pc now, I've recently thought of levelling others but I just couldn't be bothered.

[NegInfinity]

That's because I know how to roll

Then I don't believe it, unless you have some sort of video record of that run.

Short of getting very lucky and finding mithral fullplate in kobold ruins, there is not enough treasure to get 100k before level 7, unless you go out of your way to delay leveling. You'll ding enough times long before that, pretty much no matter what you do.

[chad878262]

I believe him. When I leveled my first toon running the caves and the Kobold Ruins - Giberling Caves I had made (and spent) about 50-60K and I had no clue what I was doing, had never even been to the FAI until the first time I reached the end of the Gibberling caves and generally didn't have the most fantastic build, but it was serviceable. Unfortunately I bought items from Mudds, often for more than they were actually worth and often items that I really didn't need instead of the items that would actually benefit me...

Now, I would find it hard to believe that by that time you could have 100K if you fully outfitted your char, but potions of Mage Armor are what? 50 gold? So if you're fighter just don's the first full plate that drops and uses potions of MA/Barkskin his AC is fine. If you just use whatever weapon drops after your starter weapon and otherwise don't go spend 30K on dodge/deflection AC items then I could see it. Nothing in Kobold Ruins/Gibberling caves is going to be a serious threat with AC in the mid 20's so with full plate, barkskin and Mage Armor your costs will be relatively low...

[AC81]

That's because I know how to roll

Then I don't believe it, unless you have some sort of video record of that run.

Short of getting very lucky and finding mithral fullplate in kobold ruins, there is not enough treasure to get 100k before level 7, unless you go out of your way to delay leveling. You'll ding enough times long before that, pretty much no matter what you do.

It doesn't matter if you believe me mate. It's been done and it really isn't that hard, just boring. Just roll a toon with the ability to use fullplate and a towershield, decent saves, high hp and a heal skill. Use heal kits for those life-or-death moments, otherwise just rest. Best at it are dwarven fighters in my opinion. Try to limit consumables. Take some lore:arcana, take some appraise. It really isn't hard, or original or ingenious. And it isn't one lootrun, it's days of effort. And no, I won't be videoing it or repeating anytime soon (or ever). Last time I played a low-level toon it frustrated me watching how many times I missed on my attack rolls.

But anyway - gold, epic shops, etc. A few months ago we had complaints of 'gold has no value', 'epic items are too rare'. Now it is 'I can't get gold quick enough', 'I can't make enough gold', 'Those epic items in the store are too expensive' and 'I don't like the epic item store'. I really don't know what to say. There are fail-safe ways to make gold. None of them revolve around campfire RP. Karond has presented a definitive way to make gold hand over fist, yet no-one does it. If RP is the driving factor and you don't wish to grind, then a couple of extra pluses on your items won't matter. The fact is this - epic items are now more within reach than ever. Enjoy it.

Also:

[NegInfinity]

Just roll a toon with the ability to use fullplate and a towershield, decent saves, high hp and a heal skill.

Which basically means that if you want money, you need to roll specific build, and everybody else should suck it up.

That's not a good argument.

Last time I played a low-level toon it frustrated me watching how many times I missed on my attack rolls.

That's the point where someone can chime in and explain how to roll level 1 toon whose attacks do not miss.

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Honestly I think at this point the best idea would be to just shut this thread down.

[AC81]

They're the build types I roll Neg. Why are you so insistent on arguing the point? Are you really trying to say that only dwarf fighters can make gold? Really? Do you really think I can't make a build that hits? I'm kind of over this, you are one of those people that are never happy. Either go make gold or not. Your choice. Yes, your ways of making gold are limited, it's a computer game! You won't get gold for standing around. Maybe this should be talked over in PM's rather than on a public thread? I can explain to you (again) the various ways you can make gold on this server. If you then decide that none of them suit any of your pc's playstyles you can correctly assume that you will never make much gold on this PW. Sound okay?

[mrm3ntalist]

Which basically means that if you want money, you need to roll specific build, and everybody else should suck it up.

That's not a good argument.

Any STR based (STR just for carrying staff ) with a rogue dip can be a great build for looting. Especially if that is Fighter/FB.

I will post later how much gold i made in 1hour and 7mins. That should be revealling

And that is on areas of cr18-21 that EVERY build can do. Not the epic ones with 5k drops.