The Bladesinger PRC

[Valefort]

Blame the wider and more powerful options evil alignments have.

Anyway : http://nwn2db.com/build/?261576

EDM Cleric 3/ sorc 7/EK10/Bladesinger 10 is doable, so there's that to think about before doing CHA to AC.

[Invoker]

a damnation or entropic husk

Entropic husk is quite evil to destroy the soul, damnation is another somewhat unwilling choice.

Essentially, with how things are, drow will get to be more efficient and dangerous bladesingers then elves can.

In the end, not really.

Putting Epic Spells like those in the blade isn't a good choice. It's flashy, surely, but then we're talking about RP more than mechanics. Mechanically speaking, if you're hell bent on putting an Epic Spell in the blade (...), then 3/day ESs are a better choice.

The only thing you'll miss as "good" Bladesinger is Avasculate, due to recent changes. And, of course, the fact Drow are just superior, racially. But you'll definitely perform comparably well.

[dedude]

Bladesinger PRC stats:

Hidden: show

Little tweaks and DM team calls regarding races, alignment and consequences. There is also a drow version, deathsinger, whose abilities will be the exact same except the level 8th one, Freezing Field ability will be replaced by Weakening Cloud, which instead of slowing creatures will daze them (but with a lower DC of 5 + deathsinger levels + INT modifier), the AB and AC penalties are the same as freezing field. Alignment requirement for deathsinger is any evil and dark seldarine, exception made of Eilistraee where you have to be good aligned.

Here is where the Bladesinger PRC stands at the moment :
[table][th][/th][th][/th][tr][td]Bladesinger[/td][td]

Bladesinger

Bladesingers are elves who have blended art, swordplay, and arcane magic into a harmonious whole. In battle, a bladesinger’s lithe movements and subtle tactics seem beautiful, belying their deadly martial efficiency. Bladesingers have a treasured place in elf society, balancing the joys of art and magic with the skill of masterful fighting, and so bladesingers are well-respected by other elves. They usually serve as itinerant guardians and champions of the elf community at large rather than tying themselves to one particular settlement. Multiclass fighter/wizards can become bladesingers most easily, though any elf who can wield a martial weapon and cast arcane spells can become a bladesinger.

Bladesinging ranger/wizards or rogue/wizards are not unknown.

Most bladesingers work alone, sufficient unto themselves, but in larger communities they sometimes have the opportunity to fight together in the same combat. Bladesingers are normally trained singly by another bladesinger, and the concept of anything as formalized as a bladesinger school is an absurd notion to them.

Requirements:

Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier)
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Race: Elf or Half-elf
Alignment: Any good.
Deity: Any god of the Seldarine.
Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of 1st level (Wizard or Sorc only).
Skills: Concentration 4, Perform 4, Tumble 2

Class Features:

- Hit Die: d8
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Reflex, Will.
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: Light.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Lore: Arcana, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Nobility & Royalty, Perform, Spellcraft, Tumble.

Special : a Bladesinger straying from the required alignment or deity automatically loses his abilities, those are automatically restored if the Bladesinger meets the requirements again.

Class Abilities:

Level 1: Bladesong Style, Spellcasting Progression
Level 2: Skill focus Lore : Local
Level 3:
Level 4: Bonus Feat
Level 5:
Level 6: Song of Celerity
Level 7:
Level 8: Freezing field
Level 9:
Level 10: Greater Spellsong

- Spellcasting: At every odd level and 10th level you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Bladesinger, you must decide which class gains the increased casting ability.

- Bladesong Style: When wielding a longsword or rapier and having nothing in the off-hand, a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of half her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. This bonus will not stack with the AC bonus granted by Invisible Blade or Duelist.

- Skill focus Lore : Local: A bladesinger is immersed in the traditions and the ways of his people as part of his training.

- Song of Celerity (Ex): A bladesinger can imbue his sword with any hostile spell he memorized, only one spell at a time can be imbued within the weapon. It is cast at the target on a successful melee attack.

- Freezing field: A bladesinger of 8th level is taught the spell Freezing field. Created ages ago to freeze the area around dragon wings to block and slow them so that they can't fly away this spell greatly reduces the movement speed of everyone in the area of effect and hampers both their offense and defense.

Specifics : Speed decrease : 80, AC penalty 2, AB penalty -2. Fortitude save for halving the effects (cold immunity cancels the effect completely).
DC is 10 + Bladesinger levels + spellcasting ability modifier.
Duration : 1 round per bladesinger level.

This ability can be used two times per day.

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level ignores arcane spell failure chances when wearing light armor.

- Bonus Feat: At 4th level, the bladesinger gets a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the following list: any reserve feat, Blind-fight, Feint, One Hander, Deadly Defense, Disarm, Improved Critical (Weapon), Improved Disarm, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.

[/td][/tr][/table]

Regarding the tanky bladesinger blaster path, while the AC would be there (if a little lower) they wouldn't be able to use iron body spell, which is quite important for tanking (at least they would get a huge spell failure, making it impractical as greater bladesong cancels only the ASF given by the light armor being worn) so nothing was done to curb down the AC they can get as it remains inferior to a usual auto still wizard.

Bonus feat list was tweaked, no more metamagic feats but reserve feats and more martial feats added.

Also a note on song of celerity : any hostile spell can be stored in the sword through it, from reserve spell to epic spell. Those can't be metamagiced so far (rather the metamagic won't be taken into account), and must have a hostile target (so no hostile AoE cast on self like fireburst).

Not criticizing anything, just blurting out my thoughts and questions on the new class

• The feat requirements are pretty extensive. This might be alright, but it also pushes Bladesinger levels to fairly late in a build. Especially Greater Spellsong at lvl 10. Isn't that more a signature/QoL feat than a pinacle of a PRC feat?

• Back-loading spell progression and moving bonus feats to the late levels (for epic feats) are both great ways to incentivice taking all levels instead of dipping. If that is a concern.

• Any reason why still spell isn't a requirement? I think it synergizes well with what the class does, and it can be taken as a wiz bonus feat. Could easily replace combat expertise for example.

• The class lacks synergy with perform. It is in the requirements, and it makes a lot of sense for the class. Maybe a uses-per-day feat that grants some martial bonus for perform*rounds or something?

• Song of Celerity: will it work with reserve feats like Fiery Burst? What happens if you unequip your charged weapon? What if you equip something else? Does the weapon get a visual effect while charged? I think that would be a good idea, both from a uex point of view, and for coolness

[Nachti]

What is the lore background of freezing field? Just curious.

[Valefort]

Replying in a disordely fashion :

We stuck to pnp for feat requirements since we could so not still spell, the bonus feat list restricted to non-epic feats so putting it later in the PRC wouldn't change much. Regarding Greater Bladesong in pnp it might be more of a signature feat but in nwn2 the power gain is actually pretty important to very important so it was put at level 10.

The lack of synergy with perform is indeed a bit sad, then again we stuck with pnp there, perhaps the level 8 ability (which is intended to be mainly a fluff feat with little power) can be tied to perform score, or something with song of celerity duration.

Song of celerity works with fiery burst, there's no visual effect yet, I didn't know what to put and then I forgot. As for the unequipping good question, I'll try it.

@ Nachti from the forgotten realms wiki :

In the Arcane Ages, Myth Drannan bladesingers served in the both as armathors, the magical knights of Myth Drannor, and as a special unit within the Ahk'Velahrn known as the Protectors, which acted as both an elite unit within the army and as a special bodyguard unit to the nobility. They specialized in their realm's defense against magical monsters such as demons and dragons. In the ancient texts it is mentioned they invented spells such as creating an immense freezing space thus limiting their enemies' movement (often used against dragon's wings.) [5]

[Nachti]

Ah, thanks.

[dedude]

Thanks for the explanations Valefort.

The lack of synergy with perform is indeed a bit sad, then again we stuck with pnp there, perhaps the level 8 ability (which is intended to be mainly a fluff feat with little power) can be tied to perform score, or something with song of celerity duration.

Not sure how well perform synergizes with a freezing field though but yeah it would make sense to find some use for it I think.

Song of celerity works with fiery burst, there's no visual effect yet, I didn't know what to put and then I forgot. As for the unequipping good question, I'll try it.

I think it would help the feat alot. Lets you easily see that your imbue worked, that it is still active, and that it was spent from your blade. I assume the duration is until first hit or rest.

[chad878262]

Bladesinger PRC stats:

Hidden: show

Little tweaks and DM team calls regarding races, alignment and consequences. There is also a drow version, deathsinger, whose abilities will be the exact same except the level 8th one, Freezing Field ability will be replaced by Weakening Cloud, which instead of slowing creatures will daze them (but with a lower DC of 5 + deathsinger levels + INT modifier), the AB and AC penalties are the same as freezing field. Alignment requirement for deathsinger is any evil and dark seldarine, exception made of Eilistraee where you have to be good aligned.

Here is where the Bladesinger PRC stands at the moment :
[table][th][/th][th][/th][tr][td]Bladesinger[/td][td]

Bladesinger

Bladesingers are elves who have blended art, swordplay, and arcane magic into a harmonious whole. In battle, a bladesinger’s lithe movements and subtle tactics seem beautiful, belying their deadly martial efficiency. Bladesingers have a treasured place in elf society, balancing the joys of art and magic with the skill of masterful fighting, and so bladesingers are well-respected by other elves. They usually serve as itinerant guardians and champions of the elf community at large rather than tying themselves to one particular settlement. Multiclass fighter/wizards can become bladesingers most easily, though any elf who can wield a martial weapon and cast arcane spells can become a bladesinger.

Bladesinging ranger/wizards or rogue/wizards are not unknown.

Most bladesingers work alone, sufficient unto themselves, but in larger communities they sometimes have the opportunity to fight together in the same combat. Bladesingers are normally trained singly by another bladesinger, and the concept of anything as formalized as a bladesinger school is an absurd notion to them.

Requirements:

Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier)
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Race: Elf or Half-elf
Alignment: Any good.
Deity: Any god of the Seldarine.
Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of 1st level (Wizard or Sorc only).
Skills: Concentration 4, Perform 4, Tumble 2

Class Features:

- Hit Die: d8
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Reflex, Will.
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: Light.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Lore: Arcana, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Nobility & Royalty, Perform, Spellcraft, Tumble.

Special : a Bladesinger straying from the required alignment or deity automatically loses his abilities, those are automatically restored if the Bladesinger meets the requirements again.

Class Abilities:

Level 1: Bladesong Style, Spellcasting Progression
Level 2: Skill focus Lore : Local
Level 3:
Level 4: Bonus Feat
Level 5:
Level 6: Song of Celerity
Level 7:
Level 8: Freezing field
Level 9:
Level 10: Greater Spellsong

- Spellcasting: At every odd level and 10th level you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Bladesinger, you must decide which class gains the increased casting ability.

- Bladesong Style: When wielding a longsword or rapier and having nothing in the off-hand, a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of half her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. This bonus will not stack with the AC bonus granted by Invisible Blade or Duelist.

- Skill focus Lore : Local: A bladesinger is immersed in the traditions and the ways of his people as part of his training.

- Song of Celerity (Ex): A bladesinger can imbue his sword with any hostile spell he memorized, only one spell at a time can be imbued within the weapon. It is cast at the target on a successful melee attack.

- Freezing field: A bladesinger of 8th level is taught the spell Freezing field. Created ages ago to freeze the area around dragon wings to block and slow them so that they can't fly away this spell greatly reduces the movement speed of everyone in the area of effect and hampers both their offense and defense.

Specifics : Speed decrease : 80, AC penalty 2, AB penalty -2. Fortitude save for halving the effects (cold immunity cancels the effect completely).
DC is 10 + Bladesinger levels + spellcasting ability modifier.
Duration : 1 round per bladesinger level.

This ability can be used two times per day.

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level ignores arcane spell failure chances when wearing light armor.

- Bonus Feat: At 4th level, the bladesinger gets a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the following list: any reserve feat, Blind-fight, Feint, One Hander, Deadly Defense, Disarm, Improved Critical (Weapon), Improved Disarm, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.

[/td][/tr][/table]

Regarding the tanky bladesinger blaster path, while the AC would be there (if a little lower) they wouldn't be able to use iron body spell, which is quite important for tanking (at least they would get a huge spell failure, making it impractical as greater bladesong cancels only the ASF given by the light armor being worn) so nothing was done to curb down the AC they can get as it remains inferior to a usual auto still wizard.

Bonus feat list was tweaked, no more metamagic feats but reserve feats and more martial feats added.

Also a note on song of celerity : any hostile spell can be stored in the sword through it, from reserve spell to epic spell. Those can't be metamagiced so far (rather the metamagic won't be taken into account), and must have a hostile target (so no hostile AoE cast on self like fireburst).

Not criticizing anything, just blurting out my thoughts and questions on the new class

• The feat requirements are pretty extensive. This might be alright, but it also pushes Bladesinger levels to fairly late in a build. Especially Greater Spellsong at lvl 10. Isn't that more a signature/QoL feat than a pinacle of a PRC feat?

• Back-loading spell progression and moving bonus feats to the late levels (for epic feats) are both great ways to incentivice taking all levels instead of dipping. If that is a concern.

• Any reason why still spell isn't a requirement? I think it synergizes well with what the class does, and it can be taken as a wiz bonus feat. Could easily replace combat expertise for example.

• The class lacks synergy with perform. It is in the requirements, and it makes a lot of sense for the class. Maybe a uses-per-day feat that grants some martial bonus for perform*rounds or something?

• Song of Celerity: will it work with reserve feats like Fiery Burst? What happens if you unequip your charged weapon? What if you equip something else? Does the weapon get a visual effect while charged? I think that would be a good idea, both from a uex point of view, and for coolness

Just a couple extra bits of detail with regard to these questions...no particular order.

While level 10 may be late for wearing light armor it's still sooner than auto still 1-9. The fact Mithral chain is almost as good as MFP and any wiz/sorc can make it +6 armor with a 3rd level spell makes it very powerful, so it needed to come later in levels. Coupled with feat requirements and 3b20 rule and chances are blade singer 10 will come somewhere ~18 or 21 which is right where it should be.

Still spell and auto still is actually quite a bit different. Bladesinger learns to cast while wearing armor vs. Still spell is learning to cast without the somatic component.

The bonus feat is meant to allow for some customization (and is consistent with pnp) because of the higher entry requirements.

Can't wait to test it once Valefort finishes!

[Valefort]

For the rest part it's a bit tricky, I'll have to think a bit more about it but for now if I make it temporary then it fires on -you- if you rest with a charged sword (somehow I feel it's a good thing, don't sleep with a charged sword ) or it lasts through rest (which is what I picked for now because dying because of your own spell seems rather underwhelming and annoying past the first hilarious reaction).

For the VFX definitely.

[dedude]

For the rest part it's a bit tricky, I'll have to think a bit more about it but for now if I make it temporary then it fires on -you- if you rest with a charged sword (somehow I feel it's a good thing, don't sleep with a charged sword ) or it lasts through rest (which is what I picked for now because dying because of your own spell seems rather underwhelming and annoying past the first hilarious reaction).

I could see a niche use for swords imbued with a sleep spell in the insomnia circles.

EDIT: @chad thanks for the explanations, makes more sense to me now.

[BigJ]

Been off for a few days so this is a bit long, sry. I highlighted some questions, the answer to those may help me stop scratching this itch. (PM me if you don't want to post).

Stone body gets you ASF. Only still/autostill allows you to cast. Bladesingers get 0 asf when using light armor. Anything else ( shields, heavier armors, spells ) add ASF

Question: Are we using Kaedrins code or our own?
I would like that answered as Kaerdins does not add ASF to the Bladesinder when he casts Stone Body, he can cast all his spells just fine. Tested.

The top bosses, it is going to die.

How? How is the Balor even going to hit my Wiz / BS? Does it have more than 40ab?

Low AB even lower damage and you will run out of spells

Err . . swap in a Tensers Transformation? I'm surprised I had to highlight that to head of QC (+8ab when you run out of spells).

A typical Sorck10/EK10/DS10 can solo the Balor

So I take it this one can as well? (Sorc/BS. Can you link me your Sorc10/ek10/DS10 build to compare?). Note: As this one doesn't really need the DC / extra spells, I thought about dropping the epic CHA for prowess / combat insight?

Question: What is the HP and AB on the Balor and the UD Pit Fiend?
If its less than 6000hp, my Wiz / Bs is going to nuke it. (6000 - Avas = 4500, - Avas = 3375 - Vamp regen = 2531. Then the blasting spells)

Question? Can someone confirm how much damage avasculate does / works?
I don't have the experience with the spell so I'm guessing 25% in the above calculation. It may be a mute point.

What you dont see at the builder is that this has a damage output of 5STr +5GMW +1d8Base = 14,5 + any additional weapon damage. 14,5 at a max AB of 37 (ac52) or AB31 ( ac58) - i didnt double check those number. I am using what bigj posted

Its 16.5 + 1d8 (longsword, 2h), 37ab is just for mobs, for boss the ab can be +8 Tensers, +1 Haste, then 6 attacks per round (Crit range 16-20). Fine for an EK according to the EK thread.

It wont be anywhere near the FS

Depends on the HP of bosses, and if the FS can kill them in less than 2 mins.

All the talk about melee and fighters led to a penny dropping, maybe this isn't a mage PrC its a fighter PrC, which happens to advance spellcasting -

D8hp, High bab, bonus Ac, free combat feat, slow spell, Imbue spell onto sword rather than cast. Auto cast in armour WITHOUT needing lvl 9 spells.

So, for all those that want to add a level 6/7 arcane spellbook to a fighter, here ya go. Starting with one which benefits from other recent changes QC made:

Swashbuckler / BS with Epic Precision / Insightful Strike / Combat Insight

One Stat (int) gives: +20 Damage, +5 AC and spellcasting (Inc. 17 bonus spells). Weakening Critical means the longer the fight, the less chance of getting hit.

Spells: Don't need to many buffs (+3 items and +4 bracers etc will do for most mobs), lots of spell slots at each level to recast. Then utility spellbook including Invis, Haste, Mirror Image, Breaches, Spell mantles, Teleport, True seeing, Stone Body, you know the rest. GMW doesn't dispel (make ANY weapon a +4 weapon). Others you use depending on map or for bosses (IMA, Superior Resistance, Grt Heroism, DR, Displacement etc). Plus use ANY scroll if situation calls for it (Mords).

Others:

Swashbuckler / Weapon Master BS
Fighter / Weapon Master / BS
That free feat at lvl 4 works well with these (mobilty/spring/whirlwind), although I haven't added them in these builds. Feel free to swap it in/out for something.

Swash / Assasin / BS
Not sure if ICE is needed with hipsing, but this is Cool >> Imbue sword (Avasculate?), 3 x 4d6 DC 28 Death Attacks + Insight damage then rest of flurry. Hips. Imbue sword, repeat repeat etc.

Of course you don't need assassin if you want hips, but as INT gets you damage, ac, spellcasting, you may as well use it for the DA.

So glad the insistence from earlier in this thread to make this 'Sun Elf' or 'Moon Elf' or 'Wood Elf' only, got dropped once the lorebook being misquoted was highlighted.

Question: A wizard, swash, weapon master and assassin, all bladesingers, are sitting around the campfire. Along comes an Elven leader and says "Go kill PC X, he is our enemy". Would be it then lore accurate for them to go murder him, and it would be a 'Good' act?

BigJ

[chad878262]

Question: Are we using Kaedrins code or our own?

Pretty sure Valefort made this PRC from scratch, not from Kaedrins.

How? How is the Balor even going to hit my Wiz / BS? Does it have more than 40ab?

The top bosses have more than 40 AB. I think the White has ~60ish? My guess would be the Balor is somewhere around 45, but I'm not certain.

Err . . swap in a Tensers Transformation? I'm surprised I had to highlight that to head of QC (+8ab when you run out of spells).

Assuming a BAB of 22 (since you said +8) and you have Greater Heroism (4), Greater Magic Weapon (5), Haste (1), and Tensers (8) your total AB is 22+4+5+1+8=40 (47 if we assum 24 Strength). It's a good AB and should do find in most cases, but when we are talking top end bosses it's still not auto hit by any means.. You will usually hit with at least 2 out of 6 attacks, sometimes 3 and less often 4... Still doesn't help your damage much. I'm sure MrM3ntalist is well aware of what Tenser's does, but I don't think it is enough to suddenly turn the gish in to a wrecking ball of destruction against top tier bosses.

Question: What is the HP and AB on the Balor and the UD Pit Fiend?
If its less than 6000hp, my Wiz / Bs is going to nuke it. (6000 - Avas = 4500, - Avas = 3375 - Vamp regen = 2531. Then the blasting spells)

No idea how many HP bosses have, but...

Question? Can someone confirm how much damage avasculate does / works?
I don't have the experience with the spell so I'm guessing 25% in the above calculation. It may be a mute point.

Here is the description for Avasculate, but what is not documented is that bosses on this server have a decent amount of resistance to the spell. So while the spell is unaltered on the server, bosses getting resistance makes it less effective. It still may be effective, but you only have so many spell slots and you probably also need Shadow Shield, a couple of energy immunities, and Ethereal Jaunt or two for a first strike and / or escape route. If you have various metamagics you could try making it a level 9 spell (empower) or even 8 (silent), but Bladesinger is feat starved so probably hit or miss if they have more than 1 type of meta-magic (probably extend in most cases). Level 8 though has protection from spells, premonition, and Iron Body while 9 has disjunction, shades, and etherealness. This of course doesn't consider all the other solid selections for damage, save or x, summoning, shadow simulacrum, etc... Point being there is a bit of competition.

Spell Information
Spell level : Innate level: 7, Sorcerer/Wizard: 7
School : Necromancy
Descriptor(s) : Death
Components : Verbal and Somatic
Range : Short
Target/Area : Single
Duration : Instantaneous
Save : Fortitude Partial
Spell resistance : Yes

DescriptionEdit
You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to strike a target. If the attack succeeds, the subject is reduced to half of its current hit points and stunned for 1 round. On a successful Fortitude saving throw, the subject is not stunned.

[...several build examples....]Question: A wizard, swash, weapon master and assassin, all bladesingers, are sitting around the campfire. Along comes an Elven leader and says "Go kill PC X, he is our enemy". Would be it then lore accurate for them to go murder him, and it would be a 'Good' act?

BladeSinger requires level 1 arcane spells from either Wizard or Sorcerer. In addition, SB is widely considered an underpowered class, are you now arguing that adding spell casting that can be dispelled by a lesser dispel makes them uber? Would a Fighter/WM be better off taking Rogue/FB rather than Wiz/BS? Especially when it can focus on scimitar instead of Longsword/Rapier? Finally, imbuing sword requires casting a spell and, thus would break stealth. With regard to the actual question that would be related to lore/RP and thus the purview of DM team.

[Valefort]

Question: Are we using Kaedrins code or our own?
I would like that answered as Kaerdins does not add ASF to the Bladesinder when he casts Stone Body, he can cast all his spells just fine. Tested.

Own, greater bladesong means the ASF from the armor (and only the armor, if light) is nullified.

How? How is the Balor even going to hit my Wiz / BS? Does it have more than 40ab?

Yes, 45 AB, 5000 HP, 47 AC and it casts mordenkainen's disjunction at least once (and he's not alone, though you can game the AI to kill the other mobs first).

So I take it this one can as well? (Sorc/BS. Can you link me your Sorc10/ek10/DS10 build to compare?). Note: As this one doesn't really need the DC / extra spells, I thought about dropping the epic CHA for prowess / combat insight?

No because yours does near 0 melee damage and Avsculate "only" deals 20% HP damage against bosses, Balor also has a 25% magic damage reduction so the first avasculate will only deal 750 damage.

Its 16.5 + 1d8 (longsword, 2h), 37ab is just for mobs, for boss the ab can be +8 Tensers, +1 Haste, then 6 attacks per round (Crit range 16-20). Fine for an EK according to the EK thread.

You don't really want to be unable to cast spells, it'll eat through your mirror images several times. Also the crit range for a keen longsword is 17-20 and with 20 damage per hit against a 50% immunity to slashing creature with massive HP you'll need a looooong time swinging your sword.

Comparatively I assume that the sorc/EK/DS build has minimal CHA and then maximum STR to be able to dish out some okay melee damage, at least that's how I would do it.

Depends on the HP of bosses, and if the FS can kill them in less than 2 mins.

I honestly can't imagine any bladesinger build killing the balor in less than 2 minutes, 20 rounds are not quite enough, doing an average of 250 damage per round to that beast is not easy for any build, even the top ones.

Now regarding the low CL builds you made :

SB 14 / bladesinger 10 / wizard 6

An interesting idea that can be made playable if built better but nothing it can do is outside the possibilities of an SB 14 / duelist 10 / any class with UMD for example, and that one will have more damage. The CL here is too low to be permanently buffed, because of durations and dispels, that holds true for all the builds you made.

Also assassin does not meet the bladesinger requirements, it's either wizard or sorc, nothing else for arcane spells.

EDIT: 47 AC for balor, not 45

[Tantive]

Question: A wizard, swash, weapon master and assassin, all bladesingers, are sitting around the campfire. Along comes an Elven leader and says "Go kill PC X, he is our enemy". Would be it then lore accurate for them to go murder him, and it would be a 'Good' act?

BigJ

It still depends. If whomever is a threat to elven kind, it certainly would be in the purview of a bladesinger to deal with it. But they have also higher standards to uphold. They are the 'neutral/chaotic' good arcane paladin of the elven people. They can contest the validity of the 'orders' and say no if its against Tel'Quessir ideals. But they can just as ruthlessly cut someone down if they are a threat to elven life. And it would be good.

Things get much more morally messy if its an elf who did the bad thing.

In the novel Evermeet Island of the elves, one of the bladesinger characters (Shanyrria Alenuath. Neutral Good) finds out Sunrise Tower attacked Towers of the Sun and the Moon by Sun elf traitors.

Suddenly Shanyrria understood what had happened. These elves were traitors! Sunrise Tower had attacked. The destructive force she had felt was nothing less than the shattering of the Towers of the Sun and the Moon.

Grimly the bladesinger drew her sword and advanced into the room. Evermeet had developed no defense against such treachery from within, but neither did spell-song have a defense against the magic of a bladesinger. It seemed good and right to Shanyrria that many of them would die by her blade.
 
She seized the nearest elf by his golden hair and reached around to cut his throat. As she pulled the blade in a lethal slash, she spun so that the swing would take down the elf to his right. Shanyrria had no illusions about her fate. She would die in this tower room. But when she came to Arvandor, she would bring many traitors to present themselves before the Seldarine Council for judgment.
 
Her only regret was that she would die before the battle's end, not knowing what Evermeet's fate would be.

Status, rank, means much less as long its right. Here when the same character finds out about the Queen.

Shanyrria found Adamar there, his hands clenched around the grip of the family's moonblade—which protruded from below his ribs. She stared in horror. This was beyond imagining! Never did an elf take his own life, and certainly not with the weapon that symbolized the family's honor!
 
"Why?" she asked simply.
 
In a few words, with the scant time remaining to him, Adamar told her.
 
The bladesinger listened in stunned, grieving disbelief as her father confessed his own dishonor, and told at last the terrible secret that he had never been able to bring himself to reveal: that he would be the cause of his own son's death. Prince Rhenalyrr was not of Zaor's blood. The king's moonblade, the sword of Zaor, was not his to claim, and soon all of Evermeet would bear witness to the disgrace of House Alenuath.
 
When Adamar fell into final silence, Shanyrria raced from the mansion and leaped upon her waiting moon-horse. Rhenalyrr might not be a true prince, but he was her own half-brother. She owed him the loyalty and protection due any member of the clan.
 
But when her lathered moon-horse pulled up in the valley of Drelagara, the bladesinger was greeted by a chorus of keening elven voices. She did not need to ask to know that Rhenalyrr had not survived the ritual.
 
Her face set with wrath, Shanyrria swung down from her mount and went off in search of vengeance.
 
She slipped into the pavilion where the queen sat alone, weeping silent, helpless tears. Quietly she walked up to the grieving elf woman. With a quick, smooth movement, she drew her sword and thrust the tip against Lydi'aleera's throat.
 
"I name you, Lydi'aleera Amarillis, false queen of Evermeet, to be a coward, a liar, a (germbag), and the murderer of my father Adamar Alenuath—and of my half-brother Rhenalyrr."
 
The queen stared up at the fierce bladesinger like a mouse awaiting the claws of a striking owl. "I did not know—"
 
"You knew," Shanyrria said vehemently. "You knew that Rhenalyrr was not of Zaor's blood, yet you remained silent while he took the trial of the moonblade! Surely you knew that he would not survive."
 
"He was a fine, noble young elf," she persisted. "There was a chance that he might succeed. And if the moonblades are to be held as sole measure, Amarillis is as worthy of royalty as Moonflower!"
 
Shanyrria stared at the queen through narrowed eyes. "It is said that only those truly worthy of ruling can bear the sword of Zaor. Very well then. Come."
 
She put away her sword with a quick thrust and snatched a small knife from her belt. With one hand she grasped a handful of Lydi'aleera's hair and jerked her to her feet. She put one arm firmly around the queen's shoulder, and pressed the knife hard into the elf woman's ribs.
 
"I will support you in your grief, my queen," the bladesinger said with heavy irony, "and take you where you must go."
 
The elf woman struggled to pull away, but Shanyrria was strong and held her fast. "What are you going to do?" Lydi'aleera demanded.
 
"No more than what you did to my brother. You will draw the sword of Zaor and test your worthiness to rule Evermeet. You are Amarillis born, so your chances are as good as Rhenalyrr's!"
 
"I will not do it!" gasped Lydi'aleera.
 
"You will," Shanyrria asserted. "If you do not, I will proclaim before all of Evermeet what you have done. Zaor will put you away, and you and all your clan will be shamed. Or, if you prefer, I will kill you now, and then speak."
 
The queen stared at her, all hope draining from her eyes. "And if I draw, and succeed? Will you keep silent concerning all of this?"
 
"Whether you live or die is for the moonblade to decide. I will content myself with that. Either way, you will win: a kingdom or an honorable death. It is more than you deserve."
 
Since she had no recourse, the queen walked with Shanyrria toward the place where Zaor's sword lay, gleaming still with faint blue magic, upon the ceremonial pedestal. Before any could divine her intent, Lydi'aleera stepped forward and grasped the sword in her two hands and began to slide it from the scabbard.
 
A flash of terrible blue light lit the plain. When it faded, the elf woman was gone, but for a pile of pale, drifting ash.
 
Shanyrria nodded in grim agreement to the sentence that the moonblade had pronounced. The bladesinger felt no guilt over her part in the queen's death. She considered Lydi'aleera guilty, not only of her brother's death and her father's, but also of treason against the crown. It felt right to her that Lydi'aleera's fate was one that she had chosen, though her pride, ambition, and cowardly silence, for her own son.
 
Many were the witnesses to Lydi'aleera's death. In the stunned murmurs that swept the group, the elves surmised the queen had been maddened by grief, or determined to prove the worth of Amarillis after her son's failure. Shanyrria did not care what they thought, as long as they accepted one very important truth: Lydi'aleera Amarillis was not fit to rule. She was not and never had been Evermeet's queen.
 
The bladesinger turned to face the gathering crowd. Her eyes sought out Amlaruil, who stood pale and stunned among the Tower magi. Shanyrria bowed deeply, then pulled her blade and raised it to her forehead in a gesture of respect.
 
"The queen is dead," she said, and her words seemed to echo in the stunned silence. Then she strode forward and lay her blade in a gesture of fealty at Amlaruil's feet.
 
"The queen is dead," Shanyrria repeated. "Long live the queen."
 
Zaor understood at once the importance of this moment. He strode to the alter and drew the sword. Holding it high overhead with one hand, he held out the other to Amlaruil.
 
The mage hesitated only for a moment. She walked to Zaor's side and entwined her fingers in his. Then with her other hand, she reached up to grasp the hilt of the king sword.
 
Fey blue light poured through the moonblade and enveloped them both. They stood together, in full sight of all of Evermeet, joined by the ancient magic.
 
One by one, the somber elves went down on their knees to acknowledge what no one could deny.
 
Evermeet had a true queen, at last.

[Sun Wukong]

Bladesinger PRC stats:

Hidden: show

Little tweaks and DM team calls regarding races, alignment and consequences. There is also a drow version, deathsinger, whose abilities will be the exact same except the level 8th one, Freezing Field ability will be replaced by Weakening Cloud, which instead of slowing creatures will daze them (but with a lower DC of 5 + deathsinger levels + INT modifier), the AB and AC penalties are the same as freezing field. Alignment requirement for deathsinger is any evil and dark seldarine, exception made of Eilistraee where you have to be good aligned.

Here is where the Bladesinger PRC stands at the moment :
[table][th][/th][th][/th][tr][td]Bladesinger[/td][td]

Bladesinger

Bladesingers are elves who have blended art, swordplay, and arcane magic into a harmonious whole. In battle, a bladesinger’s lithe movements and subtle tactics seem beautiful, belying their deadly martial efficiency. Bladesingers have a treasured place in elf society, balancing the joys of art and magic with the skill of masterful fighting, and so bladesingers are well-respected by other elves. They usually serve as itinerant guardians and champions of the elf community at large rather than tying themselves to one particular settlement. Multiclass fighter/wizards can become bladesingers most easily, though any elf who can wield a martial weapon and cast arcane spells can become a bladesinger.

Bladesinging ranger/wizards or rogue/wizards are not unknown.

Most bladesingers work alone, sufficient unto themselves, but in larger communities they sometimes have the opportunity to fight together in the same combat. Bladesingers are normally trained singly by another bladesinger, and the concept of anything as formalized as a bladesinger school is an absurd notion to them.

Requirements:

Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier)
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Race: Elf or Half-elf
Alignment: Any good.
Deity: Any god of the Seldarine.
Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells of 1st level (Wizard or Sorc only).
Skills: Concentration 4, Perform 4, Tumble 2

Class Features:

- Hit Die: d8
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Reflex, Will.
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: Light.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Lore: Arcana, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Nobility & Royalty, Perform, Spellcraft, Tumble.

Special : a Bladesinger straying from the required alignment or deity automatically loses his abilities, those are automatically restored if the Bladesinger meets the requirements again.

Class Abilities:

Level 1: Bladesong Style, Spellcasting Progression
Level 2: Skill focus Lore : Local
Level 3:
Level 4: Bonus Feat
Level 5:
Level 6: Song of Celerity
Level 7:
Level 8: Freezing field
Level 9:
Level 10: Greater Spellsong

- Spellcasting: At every odd level and 10th level you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Bladesinger, you must decide which class gains the increased casting ability.

- Bladesong Style: When wielding a longsword or rapier and having nothing in the off-hand, a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of half her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. This bonus will not stack with the AC bonus granted by Invisible Blade or Duelist.

- Skill focus Lore : Local: A bladesinger is immersed in the traditions and the ways of his people as part of his training.

- Song of Celerity (Ex): A bladesinger can imbue his sword with any hostile spell he memorized, only one spell at a time can be imbued within the weapon. It is cast at the target on a successful melee attack.

- Freezing field: A bladesinger of 8th level is taught the spell Freezing field. Created ages ago to freeze the area around dragon wings to block and slow them so that they can't fly away this spell greatly reduces the movement speed of everyone in the area of effect and hampers both their offense and defense.

Specifics : Speed decrease : 80, AC penalty 2, AB penalty -2. Fortitude save for halving the effects (cold immunity cancels the effect completely).
DC is 10 + Bladesinger levels + spellcasting ability modifier.
Duration : 1 round per bladesinger level.

This ability can be used two times per day.

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level ignores arcane spell failure chances when wearing light armor.

- Bonus Feat: At 4th level, the bladesinger gets a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the following list: any reserve feat, Blind-fight, Feint, One Hander, Deadly Defense, Disarm, Improved Critical (Weapon), Improved Disarm, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.

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Regarding the tanky bladesinger blaster path, while the AC would be there (if a little lower) they wouldn't be able to use iron body spell, which is quite important for tanking (at least they would get a huge spell failure, making it impractical as greater bladesong cancels only the ASF given by the light armor being worn) so nothing was done to curb down the AC they can get as it remains inferior to a usual auto still wizard.

Bonus feat list was tweaked, no more metamagic feats but reserve feats and more martial feats added.

Also a note on song of celerity : any hostile spell can be stored in the sword through it, from reserve spell to epic spell. Those can't be metamagiced so far (rather the metamagic won't be taken into account), and must have a hostile target (so no hostile AoE cast on self like fireburst).

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level ignores arcane spell failure chances when wearing light armor.

When I read the above class perk description - I get the idea that as long as a Bladesinger wears a light armor they can ignore all sources of arcane spell failure. In otherwords, cast spells while underneath the effects of Stone/Iron Body spells.

Thus it might be better to word it something like this:

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level ignores the arcane spell failure imposed by wearing light armor. This ability does not negate the arcane spell failure from other sources.

Or if the ability to wear light armor is coded as a stock arcane spell failure reduction:

- Greater Spellsong (Ex): A bladesinger of 10th level can ignore up to 20% of arcane spell failure, thus allowing him to overcome the arcane spell failure chance imposed by any form of light armor.

If this second case is how it works, then a Bladesinger that does not wear any armor would suffer a 30% arcane spell failure from the effects of Stone/Iron Body spells. Both spells 'grant' an arcane spell failure of 50% by default. It is an improvement to flipping a coin, but the probability of 'one in every three' spells can cost your character's life. Thus, a Bladesinger would have an incentive to get the Still Spell metamagic feat, and possibly even spend some epic feats on the Automatic: Still Spell line of feats.

So, I guess I am more or less content with the current iteration of the class.