The Bladesinger PRC

[ctothep]

Is the class available now ?

It is.

[Valefort]

It's not really there, there is a hidden requirement that you can't get

QC can test it and when they'll be happy with it it will be available for everyone.

[Nachti]

I like the deathsinger. It gives me reason to overhaul my necromantic knight (drow previously wizard/palemaster/fighter).

[ctothep]

It's not really there, there is a hidden requirement that you can't get

QC can test it and when they'll be happy with it it will be available for everyone.

ow thats bad news i wanted to try it later

hopefully itll be in soon

[Hawke]

Looking at the racial requirements, I noticed that HElf is not among them. Not sure which of the 19 pages that it was discussed, but I am a little disappointed :/

[Valefort]

Uh it is. I'll check the description ... but anyway mechanically you can.

[Hawke]

Uh it is. I'll check the description ... but anyway mechanically you can.

Ok.. HElfs will be nice as an extra option to use this class. Cool cool.

[Tantive]

Though you are very likely to get elves to respond very differently to you if you are a half-elf, including other bladesingers.

[Tantive]

I'm not sure if Freezing field is suppose to be counted as an ability, as it is a spell. The designs for bladesinger prc in the books speak of the Bladesinger Feats gained, all to be Extraordinary abilities, through extraordinary training.

Lesser Spellsong (Ex)
Song of Celerity (Ex)
Greater Spellsong (Ex)
Song of Fury (Ex)

These were all feats to help with the melee aspect of a bladesinger.

I think it might be much more appropriate to add in a spellbook that could have spells expanded upon that require the bladesong to perform. Simular how a spell could say this one is cast by a druid, or a wizard, or a bard. This however then as a bladesinger.

[BigJ]

Been a busy week for me, but returning to this as others have raised certain points . .

predetermined intent like the post you made about

Code: Select all

A power PrC suggested by elf players, QC'd by elf players and Dev'd by elf players, for elf players.

You cant expect to post such things and noone say something about it, with the same level of intent, can you?

Perhaps you misunderstood the phrase 'predetermined intent' ?

But, since you have decided to revisit that comment M., lets discuss it . .

The Bladesinger PrC was proposed by Tantive (A long time Bladesinger RP'er). It has been built by Valefort (long time Half-Elf Swashbuckler), and publicly QC'd by Mrmmlist (Elf player, head of EDE) and Chad (Half-elf Swashbuckler player).

No other staff member has commented, except to criticise the original post as 'stupidly Overpowered' (DM), incorrect re lore (QC), and make it app only (Forum Mod).

Now, regardless of what you read into that statement (Ie. nothing), the statement itself is correct regarding the information publicly available in this thread, the statement itself is factually accurate.

Perhaps there is something to learn from that, as players do not have access to the private forums and can only reference what is publicly available.

However, as I later said in this thread . .

Firstly regarding that one post I made few pages ago I was just getting frustrated because the 3 staff members posting here weren't seeing what I was, it happens. I apologise for that post, there are better ways to do things.

A better way is to do the math, so here goes . . .

[BigJ]

. . and now for the math (Please advise where incorrect, I do make mistakes )

I removed ICE as suggested, and added Epic Heal, so still 53 ac (1 more than that sorc. Could add PA, perhaps Armour Skin, but not sure it needs +2 ac more than that sorc).

Bladesinger Blaster

Tweaked spellbook (even added Shapechange just for kicks. Does it correctly lose the bonus ac?)

Hidden: show

It has 66 spells (with a angrays slave collar (0,1,2,3) and wizard ring (1 x 4 level). There are more spell slot items around but those would do for now.

Self Buff (13) Prot Evil, IMA, GMW, Elemental Immune, Sup. Resistance, Grt Stoneskin. Extended: Shield, Bulls, Bear, Cats, Shadow Shield, Grt Heroism, blindsight.
Summon + Buff (5): Gate or Lvl 9 summon, Prot Evil, IMA, Spiderskin, Animalistic Power
Auto Quickened (7): 7 x Lesser Orb Sound (9d8)
Further Quickened (4): 2 x Lesser Orb Sound (9d8), 2 x IGMS (12 x 2d6)
Empowered (11): 7 x Orb of Sound (18d6), 4 x Lesser Orb Sound (9d8)
Maximised (10) : 4 x Orb of Sound (18d6), 5 x IGMS (12 x 2d6), 1 x Lesser Orb Sound (9d8)
Other (16): Assay, 6 x Avasculate, lssr breach, grt breach, 3 x Mirror Image (Auto quick), Ext. Displacement, 2 x Ext Haste, Shapechange.

So we now have the Balor down to 1884hp in 6 rounds, time for those 32 blasting spells that Valefort forgot about.

(Mathematical mean average used for calculations)

4 - IGMS (2 x Quick (48d6), 2 x Maxed (288) = 455
8 - Sound Orb, 4 x Quick lssr (36d8), 4 x Maxed Norm Orb (576) = 743
6 - 3 x Quick lssr Sound (27d8), 3 x Maxed IGMS (432) = 648
4 - 2 x Quick Lsser Sound (18d8), 2 x Empow Orb of Sound (36d8) = 180
5 - Empower Orb of Sound (90d8) = 626
5 - 1 x lssr Orb Max (72) 4 x Empow Lser Orb Sound (36d8) = 322

= 2974 - 25% = 2230 damage in 19 rounds, following those 1 Assay Assistance and 6 rounds of avasculate.

= Nuked the Balor in under 3 mins.

Defence.

I gave the Balor 30 rounds even though the above spells take 26 rounds.

30 rounds of 45ab (65%) = 20 (rounded up)
30 rounds of 40ab (40%) = 12

- 50 % conceal = 16 hits.

Number of Mirror Images available = 30 (Auto-quick, cannot be interrupted, cast ahead of Emp. Orb to top up if needed so no additional casting rounds)

For those few crit hits that occur, still 50% conceal applies then 20dr, then Epic Heal.

So, given the math, is it now possible to dismiss the following statement as inaccurate?

Your build will solo most bosses that most builds can ( FK, Pit fiend in the Nashkel mines etc ). The top bosses, it is going to die. Why? Low AB even lower damage and you will run out of spells. A typical Sorck10/EK10/DS10 can solo the Balor ( with a bit of luck since the bigby 5 was nerfed ), your build highly unlikely.

If the above math is wrong please advise, and also advise if any of the below summary is inaccurate.

1) The Bladesinger PrC can go one on one with the Balor and nuke it in under 3 minutes, maintaining strong defences.
2) Bladesinger is the only purely arcane PrC that gives d8hp.
3) Bladesinger is the only PrC (arcane or not) that has a stat based AC bonus (upto +5) that is KEPT in armour
4) Bladesinger is the only wiz/sorc PrC that can cast in armour, for free. (Saving 4 feats, 3 of them epic. Also doesn't need level 9 spells).
5) Bladesinger is only caster PrC that can use one stat (INT in this case) for: Damage (+10, same as 30 str), AC (+5), spellcasting & bonus spells, all whilst wearing light armour (+6 AC).
6) Bladesinger is the only PrC that can give a level 5/6/7 spellbook with plenty of spells to a strong melee base that casts in armour.
Perfect for Weapon Master (Already has 4 of the 6 feats required)
Perfect for Swashbuckler for Insight melee damage (+20 INT damage) with option for Epic Precision.
Perfect for assassin with bluff skill and free feint feat, plus high DC death attacks (with insight damage), and auto quicken spell avasulate via ability for that first round.

Wiz or Sorc 6 / EK 4 / Asoc 10 / BS 10 - Is this an example of how BS is unbalanced? The fact that you said you never played such a build, yet you use it to prove some kind of a point is a clear display of your ignorance of mechanics.

So, without trading insults and just using the math, has my lack of knowledge produced a build that can summon, buff and defend, melee less/mid mods, then also nuke the Balor? Or UD Pit Fiend? (Are the stats different for the UD pit?)

BigJ.

PS. I Know the PrC is in, M said so and its part of the new update. Still, as I had this info may as well post it.

[mrm3ntalist]

Been a busy week for me, but returning to this as others have raised certain points . .

predetermined intent like the post you made about

Code: Select all

A power PrC suggested by elf players, QC'd by elf players and Dev'd by elf players, for elf players.

You cant expect to post such things and noone say something about it, with the same level of intent, can you?

Perhaps you misunderstood the phrase ?

But, since you have decided to revisit that comment M., lets discuss it . .

The Bladesinger PrC was proposed by Tantive (A long time Bladesinger RP'er). It has been built by Valefort (long time Half-Elf Swashbuckler), and publicly QC'd by Mrmmlist (Elf player, head of EDE) and Chad (Half-elf Swashbuckler player).

No other staff member has commented, except to criticise the original post as 'stupidly Overpowered' (DM), incorrect re lore (QC), and make it app only (Forum Mod).

Now, regardless of what you read into that statement (Ie. nothing), the statement itself is correct regarding the information publicly available in this thread, the statement itself is factually accurate.

Perhaps there is something to learn from that, as players do not have access to the private forums and can only reference what is publicly available.

However, as I later said in this thread . .

Firstly regarding that one post I made few pages ago I was just getting frustrated because the 3 staff members posting here weren't seeing what I was, it happens. I apologise for that post, there are better ways to do things.

A better way is to do the math, so here goes . . .

The problem with your statement, is because there is an argument, you assume that there is a 'predetermined intent' . Assume being the key word, since assumptions can be very wrong. You still havent let us know what the team told you about all this.

One question for my own record keeping. Which DM said this PRC is 'stupidly Overpowered'. I missed that.

[mrm3ntalist]

Again, your whole post is based on assumptions.

Have you ever done this? Or tried to?

Nuked the Balor in under 3 mins.

Like you saiid, the PRC is almost ready to be realesed for everyone. Then you can go and PWn the server with this 'stupidly overpowered PRC'. Or you wont because you cant.

[mrm3ntalist]

Wiz or Sorc 6 / EK 4 / Asoc 10 / BS 10 - Is this an example of how BS is unbalanced? The fact that you said you never played such a build, yet you use it to prove some kind of a point is a clear display of your ignorance of mechanics.

So, without trading insults and just using the math, has my lack of knowledge produced a build that can summon, buff and defend, melee less/mid mods, then also nuke the Balor? Or UD Pit Fiend? (Are the stats different for the UD pit?)

BigJ.

PS. I Know the PrC is in, M said so and its part of the new update. Still, as I had this info may as well post it.

Any caster build can summon, buff defend melee less/mid mods. No build can nuke the Balor. What you described in your post can easily be done by a dragonslayer instead of a bladesinger.

[mrm3ntalist]

In anycase, like i said before, this PRC will be out very soon. Lets see how "stupidly overpowered" this is. This thread wont go away.