Re: addition to PvP rules suggestion
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:10 pm
I voted no, and since the poll requests my reasoning, I am going to offer it. It is strictly opinion. Strictly my thoughts, it has nothing to do with the fact that most of my characters are good... or good ish... enough. I am basing these opinions off of pre-existing facts which have been stated and implemented in the past. I will attempt to keep this brief. I am not trying to start any arguments or step on toes. My apologies in advance for the inevitably hurt feelings.
Point One: The rules as they are written are already unbiased to good or evil. Good guys have just as much right to gang up on the bad guys. However, the issues of necromatic summons and summoners being felled, is in my opinion... not a product of the PVP rules but of the IG and IC laws of the lands. As a good and mostly lawful setting, with mostly lawful areas and a set of laws... folks are going to raise more eyebrows and alarms at a man walking around with and not getting attacked by a vampire than a man walking around with and not getting attacked by an angel. Especially since Necromancy is illegal, and highly frowned upon.
Point Two: This is a predominantly good setting. It isn't Ravenloft or 'dark fantasy'... this means it is not Roaringshore Tales of the Doomed Coasts (example used as an in setting 'non good' focal point only, not trying to make a jab)... it is in fact Baldur's Gate The Sword Coast Chronicles. Good guys will win more often than not... bad guys who are obvious are doomed to likely die, likely at the hands of mass mobs bearing any number of holy swords and pitchforks. If you like a darker atmosphere where good loses more often than not, I suggest Ravenloft, A real Underdark (and not PG-13 server) or something like Warhammer.
Point Three: Success and Failure is how you play. And it isn't just for good or evil characters. I mean I've seen evil characters last for ages when they play their cards right... even seen them win sometimes. For example: It wasn't the good characters who resurrected the Nemesis of the Gods, blew up half the Palace district and instigated a brief but brutal war that destroyed not one but Two main areas/villages.
Good characters who aren't careful and go to bad places can get in just as much trouble... I know from experience, and can site the examples rather briefly. Spent a week as a zombie as a result. Learned from it and avoided the area ICly since. I know it seems like good guys won the Bhaalist siege, but we really didn't. I mean the bad guys did manage to kidnap and kill two very key NPCs, and nearly brought the avatar to the Coast. All we did though was put off the inevitable because Bhaal will be back, and I am sure there are still Bhaalists willing to kill a certain saint. Who is alive only because she is now jaded, paranoid and overly cautious. If that means staying in areas known to be mostly safe (such as the fire) so be it.
The point is, good or evil can live or die just the same. Just because you hear about the public execution that added a perma-strike to an evil character and you -didn't- hear about the assassination that resulted in an equally hefty strike for the good guy... doesn't mean they don't happen.
Point Four: This is an RP server, not an Action/PVP server. PVP can happen but must have a reason. PVP will happen as a result of various actions already encompassed and covered by rules... It shouldn't happen nearly as much as it does in my opinion... but in adding more reasons to PVP... that is not going to make this a better RP server. I think the less folks worry about PVP rules and PVP mechanics and PVP as a whole... the more role play there is, be that plotting evil schemes, character development, plotting anarchy, assassinations, revenge, plotting ways to uphold good, law and protect the innocent ect... As I said though, much of this post is opinion.
In Closing: Seeing as the problem is a product of rp styles, the setting, the IC lore and so forth, changing the rules is not likely to fix it. There is no real way to make EVERYONE happy all at once. The setting could change and then so would the complaint and argument... Summons could be done away with all together... but that would open an entirely different can of worms.
In all reality the only way to really deal with a problem like this is to learn to work with what you have, making the systems work for you (which I have both seen done and done, it takes a lot of work but isn't impossible, but may be worth it if you like that sort of challenge), or change venues/outlets... which means a change of setting, style, genre, ect. It ultimately comes down to who is willing to do how much and why... no amount of rules or rule changes will fix opinions, outlooks or preferences of the mass.
Point One: The rules as they are written are already unbiased to good or evil. Good guys have just as much right to gang up on the bad guys. However, the issues of necromatic summons and summoners being felled, is in my opinion... not a product of the PVP rules but of the IG and IC laws of the lands. As a good and mostly lawful setting, with mostly lawful areas and a set of laws... folks are going to raise more eyebrows and alarms at a man walking around with and not getting attacked by a vampire than a man walking around with and not getting attacked by an angel. Especially since Necromancy is illegal, and highly frowned upon.
Point Two: This is a predominantly good setting. It isn't Ravenloft or 'dark fantasy'... this means it is not Roaringshore Tales of the Doomed Coasts (example used as an in setting 'non good' focal point only, not trying to make a jab)... it is in fact Baldur's Gate The Sword Coast Chronicles. Good guys will win more often than not... bad guys who are obvious are doomed to likely die, likely at the hands of mass mobs bearing any number of holy swords and pitchforks. If you like a darker atmosphere where good loses more often than not, I suggest Ravenloft, A real Underdark (and not PG-13 server) or something like Warhammer.
Point Three: Success and Failure is how you play. And it isn't just for good or evil characters. I mean I've seen evil characters last for ages when they play their cards right... even seen them win sometimes. For example: It wasn't the good characters who resurrected the Nemesis of the Gods, blew up half the Palace district and instigated a brief but brutal war that destroyed not one but Two main areas/villages.
Good characters who aren't careful and go to bad places can get in just as much trouble... I know from experience, and can site the examples rather briefly. Spent a week as a zombie as a result. Learned from it and avoided the area ICly since. I know it seems like good guys won the Bhaalist siege, but we really didn't. I mean the bad guys did manage to kidnap and kill two very key NPCs, and nearly brought the avatar to the Coast. All we did though was put off the inevitable because Bhaal will be back, and I am sure there are still Bhaalists willing to kill a certain saint. Who is alive only because she is now jaded, paranoid and overly cautious. If that means staying in areas known to be mostly safe (such as the fire) so be it.
The point is, good or evil can live or die just the same. Just because you hear about the public execution that added a perma-strike to an evil character and you -didn't- hear about the assassination that resulted in an equally hefty strike for the good guy... doesn't mean they don't happen.
Point Four: This is an RP server, not an Action/PVP server. PVP can happen but must have a reason. PVP will happen as a result of various actions already encompassed and covered by rules... It shouldn't happen nearly as much as it does in my opinion... but in adding more reasons to PVP... that is not going to make this a better RP server. I think the less folks worry about PVP rules and PVP mechanics and PVP as a whole... the more role play there is, be that plotting evil schemes, character development, plotting anarchy, assassinations, revenge, plotting ways to uphold good, law and protect the innocent ect... As I said though, much of this post is opinion.
In Closing: Seeing as the problem is a product of rp styles, the setting, the IC lore and so forth, changing the rules is not likely to fix it. There is no real way to make EVERYONE happy all at once. The setting could change and then so would the complaint and argument... Summons could be done away with all together... but that would open an entirely different can of worms.
In all reality the only way to really deal with a problem like this is to learn to work with what you have, making the systems work for you (which I have both seen done and done, it takes a lot of work but isn't impossible, but may be worth it if you like that sort of challenge), or change venues/outlets... which means a change of setting, style, genre, ect. It ultimately comes down to who is willing to do how much and why... no amount of rules or rule changes will fix opinions, outlooks or preferences of the mass.
