Allow players seat in the Conclave (Discussion)

[DM_Absolution]

1) I never suggested that we replace all 13 seats on the conclave with players, merely a few. This again would mean that the staff still controls the majority of the seats.

2) You can't really use the analogy with the fists, as they were more hands on then the conclave members would be. I doubt you would run into a conclave member walking around flaunting his position in Sshamath, that would be problematic to say the least.

3) I was thinking that the staff could host monthly meetings, or whenever something would come up that made such a meeting called for.

4) The schools of magic needs more activity, it is pretty much dead. If we take into consideration that the schools are the largest institution of Sshamath, then it is a shame that it is so lifeless.

5) Imagine the effect this might have on other guilds? I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but i believe that all guilds in the UD will benefit greatly from this.

6) And of course this setup will needs to be in capable hands, someone who is well versed in lore of the server and has a interest in politics. I would think that there are someone among the staff or player populace that has the knowledge and interest in running something like this?

Edit: Nyeleni, you will just be adding more and more padding, i believe it would make it too bureaucratic.

[DM Theophanies]

While it would need to go to team discussion, in my personal opinion this would never happen. First, as it was mentioned earlier, this is similar to replacing one of the Dukes as they are the ruling powers of the city. There may be more of them but they still have significant influence. Second, the UD has only recently refilled again so that I can try to push the campaign down there, after a good chunk of the year being empty. Third, how to even approach doing that fairly without outcry of favoritism is even beyond me as it would require heavy attention to a select few individuals and granting them significant power inside the city. That's not to say someone could not RP'ly try to assassinate a conclave member and take their place or manipulate their way through a school but it would take very significant investment in roleplay (both time and activity), coordination and aid of others and very well come with a high degree of risk to your characters well being on a continual basis.

As Dialectic suggested, what you may see is the Magistrature or more likely (as it is only filled with mages by lore) the Bureaucracy be occupied by player characters. The Bureaucracy answers directly to the Conclave though in political station it is below the Magistrature and help set policies and objectives for the city for any given cycle. They also help administrate City Guard, the Charnag Maelthra intelligence organization, and the City Milita though they are on the same level politically as them. This council for both whom it answers to and whom it basically controls does carry some political sway.

For structure, we could do one seat per faction with the factions getting to select and change their representative (so long as the faction maintains a favorable relationship with the Conclave of course). We could have a certain number of seats for unaligned individuals whom wish to serve with a specific term.

Anyway, this is just from my perspective what you could likely see manifest in game.

[DM_Absolution]

this is similar to replacing one of the Dukes as they are the ruling powers of the city. There may be more of them but they still have significant influence.

True, but this power that you speak of will be limited through;

1) The PC's that are on the conclave are in minority
- Major changes to the cities politics will be unlikely to happen just because a few players have a seat there. Can't it be as simple as if you disagree with a suggestion they are proposing, then turn it down? Majority rules.

Third, how to even approach doing that fairly without outcry of favoritism is even beyond me as it would require heavy attention to a select few individuals and granting them significant power inside the city.

Well i do not know the state of "house Sshamath" but let us say that house Dev'lin wants a seat, it will be given to the head of the house, or someone she appoints to the position. And if a Yathrin wishes to get rid of the Matron, then she can attempt this in the normal fashion, as is custom in drow society.

That's not to say someone could not RP'ly try to assassinate a conclave member and take their place or manipulate their way through a school but it would take very significant investment in roleplay (both time and activity), coordination and aid of others and very well come with a high degree of risk to your characters well being on a continual basis.

If players are that scared of having their character get permadeath strikes, then they should not attempt to do anything that would risk getting one. Many players, including myself would gladly take similar risks, and if i fail, so be it. It is the journey that is interesting, not necessarily if you succeed in achieving your end goal.

As Dialectic suggested, what you may see is the Magistrature or more likely (as it is only filled with mages by lore) the Bureaucracy be occupied by player characters. The Bureaucracy answers directly to the Conclave though in political station it is below the Magistrature and help set policies and objectives for the city for any given cycle. They also help administrate City Guard, the Charnag Maelthra intelligence organization, and the City Milita though they are on the same level politically as them. This council for both whom it answers to and whom it basically controls does carry some political sway.

For structure, we could do one seat per faction with the factions getting to select and change their representative (so long as the faction maintains a favorable relationship with the Conclave of course). We could have a certain number of seats for unaligned individuals whom wish to serve with a specific term.

Anyway, this is just from my perspective what you could likely see manifest in game.

Sounds like a fine idea as well. A clear structure would have to be made of course, as well as a list of those factions that would be relevant to include. But by adding this institution you make the conclave even more "distant". This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives them a bit more mystery.

Could be promising and come wednesday when i am done with exams and stuff i will really put some thought into this idea. Not saying i have the power to decide on anything, i just can't invest a huge amount of time into something else but studying at the moment.

[DM Theophanies]

As Dialectic suggested, what you may see is the Magistrature or more likely (as it is only filled with mages by lore) the Bureaucracy be occupied by player characters. The Bureaucracy answers directly to the Conclave though in political station it is below the Magistrature and help set policies and objectives for the city for any given cycle. They also help administrate City Guard, the Charnag Maelthra intelligence organization, and the City Milita though they are on the same level politically as them. This council for both whom it answers to and whom it basically controls does carry some political sway.

For structure, we could do one seat per faction with the factions getting to select and change their representative (so long as the faction maintains a favorable relationship with the Conclave of course). We could have a certain number of seats for unaligned individuals whom wish to serve with a specific term.

Anyway, this is just from my perspective what you could likely see manifest in game.

Sounds like a fine idea as well. A clear structure would have to be made of course, as well as a list of those factions that would be relevant to include. But by adding this institution you make the conclave even more "distant". This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives them a bit more mystery.

Could be promising and come wednesday when i am done with exams and stuff i will really put some thought into this idea. Not saying i have the power to decide on anything, i just can't invest a huge amount of time into something else but studying at the moment.

Well it is a lore based institution, so it's not necessarily adding any complexity to the politics of Sshmath, if anything it would be flushing out what is actually present in lore. Though I am not sure if I agree that it will make the Conclave seem more distant. This council would answer directly to them and deal with requests from the conclave to discuss matters relating to the safety of the city within and without, trade, ect. If anything they would potentially have an increased exposure to the Conclave.

If there is enough interest in this sort of play I can take it to the DM team in a more polished form. It would certainly represent a stepping stone for the political game of Sshamath and be inclusive enough that many can be included in a fair manner that is easily watched by myself.

The next step of course would be influencing the various representatives of the Schools and other factions on the Conclave and the internal power struggle there as well. I've certainly played this in the past and continue to do so. This would lead to a two step process for factions and individuals to try to assert their will into Sshamath, gaining support of the Bureaucracy and then political maneuvering to get it approved by the Conclave. Of course such actions would be largely by player initiative.

[DM_Absolution]

If there is enough interest in this sort of play I can take it to the DM team in a more polished form. It would certainly represent a stepping stone for the political game of Sshamath and be inclusive enough that many can be included in a fair manner that is easily watched by myself.

Perhaps a poll? would be hard to judge majority from just one thread with a few participants. Make a new thread with a clear title, so we can actually get the opinion of the majority.

[Ithilan]

Not certain how much a poll would benefit you on the subject, you'll just have a big pool of "less insightful" players voting, forgive my harsh choice of words. But unless you're an established player in the Underdark, you hardly have a clue about whats going on politically as one of several factors that ought to be taken into account..

I personally really like the idea and it brings back memories of my first NWN1 server where we had an elven council with player elected members, which was a massive success. That said, im very much incapable of assesing whether it would work or not.

[Lag]

(redacted)

[DM_Absolution]

Not certain how much a poll would benefit you on the subject, you'll just have a big pool of "less insightful" players voting, forgive my harsh choice of words. But unless you're an established player in the Underdark, you hardly have a clue about whats going on politically as one of several factors that ought to be taken into account..

I personally really like the idea and it brings back memories of my first NWN1 server where we had an elven council with player elected members, which was a massive success. That said, im very much incapable of assesing whether it would work or not.

less insightful? I can see the problem with people who rarely or never play in the UD just randomly voting.

Perhaps once Theophanies has developed a more polished form, he can present it in a thread and also add a note that only those who has an interest in the UD vote. That is the best we can do, you cannot get a fair representation of the UD majority from a thread with 5-6 participants, -and- the thread is 4+ pages in.

[Ithilan]

Editted it for more accurate phrasing, english isnt my native language so sometimes its a bit of a challenge to construct the proper sentences, my appologise.

[Lag]

(redacted)

[DM Theophanies]

Alright that's enough or I will lock this thread.

[DM_Absolution]

Alright i edited my post Ilthilan.

And Lag, just leave it be. We all have our own personal opinion, so even though we try to be politically correct, we sometimes let our emotions get the better of us, it happens.

[Blackman D]

Maybe not a seat in the conclave per se. But what about a team of specialists consulting the conclave in diffferent matters?

Military
Economy
Arcane

etc.

this and pretty much the other suggestions after it basically describe how the schools are suppose to be, however as it was pointed out most all of them are dead

sure there are houses that may be active but they are a step below the schools in status, each school already has a conclave rep who is NPC but players below the position of conclave rep would essentially act like the suggested council

it would be easier i think to get the houses to have their arcane users associate with one of the schools and then represent their house on matters and then if said house has a suggestion the house rep can try to push the idea through the school which would then make its way to the conclave via that means

the structure that is being suggested is already there but no one uses it because everyone wants to be apart of a house but then ignores the schools, where the two can easily be interlinked

[DM Dialectic]

This is not a DM team ruling or opinion, just my own personal brainstorming.

Not getting into the possibility of player characters replacing NPC rulers of major settlements and the IC or OOC feasibility of this on our server, what about player characters in Sshamath trying to create a Foreign Exchange Committee or War Council type player initiative group that the Conclave would have IC reason to conditionally delegate some duties, decisions, missions, and responsibilities to from time to time, suiting with Sshamath lore of course? It also might be an interesting way to inclusively bring Sshamath political RP together.

You're describing the 7th Circle.

I meant conceptually more along the lines of what DM Theophanies specifically proposed a bit later:

As Dialectic suggested, what you may see is the Magistrature or more likely (as it is only filled with mages by lore) the Bureaucracy be occupied by player characters. The Bureaucracy answers directly to the Conclave though in political station it is below the Magistrature and help set policies and objectives for the city for any given cycle. They also help administrate City Guard, the Charnag Maelthra intelligence organization, and the City Milita though they are on the same level politically as them. This council for both whom it answers to and whom it basically controls does carry some political sway.

For structure, we could do one seat per faction with the factions getting to select and change their representative (so long as the faction maintains a favorable relationship with the Conclave of course). We could have a certain number of seats for unaligned individuals whom wish to serve with a specific term.

Anyway, this is just from my perspective what you could likely see manifest in game.

[DM Pun Pun]

I have an idea. Let's join up together, destroy the Conclave and their useless puppets and re-establish a good, old fashioned Lolthite theocracy, just like the good ol' days. Ay? Ay? Who's with me?