Ki Step is a game-breaking feat

[Invoker]

It's completely, utterly broken OP.

This is, by the way, the reason why Dimension Door has been implemented as horrendously as it has on BGTSCC: because it's "normal" version (Sigil's, for instance) is totally overpowered.

If you die with this feat, it's only because you NOT ONLY were in waaaay over your head, but you also realised it far too late.

Reasons why it's OP:

-) It's an instant teleport
-) Costs next to nothing
-) Cannot be rupted (no counterplay)
-) It's available for the fastest class in the game
-) Monks are strong, and needed no help whatsoever (what they need, is decent gloves in the loot table).

It's undisputably broken even for regular gameplay, aside from the innumerable exploits it can be used for.

Said this, I bet it's very fun to play with.

[ctothep]

Perhaps a bit off topic but as i understand from this thread it's a point click teleport feat? Damn i always wished Shadowdancers shadowjump worked like this...

Has SD's shadowjump been changed or is it still pretty much a dimension door copy paste?

[chad878262]

If the range is limited, there is a cooldown and/or additional uses cost stunning fist uses I think it's ok. I can't find anything in a google search for this, closest thing is 'abundant step' which is for leaping in to battle quickly or jumping over a chasm no one else could cross. I would say maybe limit ki step to 30 - 50', throw a 30 second timer on it and make every use cost a stunning fist use.

[BigJ]

I had the option of taking this feat with Sandy but declined it as it is teleportation, not just running fast. If I wanted to see folks 'popping' all over the screen I'd put an X-men movie on and therein lies the main problem for me, its immersion breaking not just game breaking.

I'll just highlight I not referring to most folks here that go to the trouble of reading forums (about 20% of a servers player base), but its within the other 80% that worries me when they see this feat in the list and just think "Cool, I can be Nightcrawler!" and start popping around map showing off their cool skill.

There is also no point in comparing this to SD and assassin/invisibility as you can have those things AND have this too (Monk/ass etc.).

In fact this could give an assassin impunity. Stay invisible whilst just outside the targets detection range (Ie blindsight), then with poison blades pop right next to unsuspecting target and Death Attack away. Target will probably take a couple of rounds before they even realise what's going on. There's no counter or protection from it. If the kill doesn't look certain after 30secs, just pop off.

One other thing, this 'skill' isn't just a monk feat its also a Dark Invocation for Warlocks, with a 30sec cooldown, but at least they actually have to cast it first. Still, I didn't pick it.

BigJ

[trogers2]

This sort of feat needs removing...

Yes, the feat needs tweaking, yes it is crazy we can hop around the map and yes it is OP (at the moment) but removing it would open a big can of worms as players that had taken it would be forced to RCR, or lose a feat - and what happens when the RCR goes back to 50% are we expected to just 'deal with it'?

No, the smart thing to do would be to make it more balanced - as it has been agreed; a distance cap and possibly a cooldown (if used x amount of times) and this problem would be fixed - blinding speed is part of who a monk is; granted jumping across the map is taking it too far but 'short jumps' should be possible for a monk class.

There is also no point in comparing this to SD and assassin/invisibility as you can have those things AND have this too (Monk/ass etc.)

Yes, and No - in order to get this ability you would really need to take a dip in monk; and would only get 2 - 5 stunning fist uses at most which comes at a cost, as those levels/feats would be better spent elsewhere; remember taking a dip in monk is worthless if you wear armour, because you lose the benefits a monk gets (assassins wear armour) Or you can lose (2 - 3 feats) to get it, which again cripples your character slightly, the stunning fist would also be useless to you; as the DC of the stun = Monk level + wisdom.

It has been pointed out that some monsters have very high spot checks and can see through invisibility; however I still see a lot of players using it to run through caves and ruins like solid snake without fear or risk of been seen -- all the time; the latest one in Durlags tower where he just ran by looting all the chests. As I said, not all places allow this - but a lot do, and this is a problem, I actually think this is how that Drow got through the barrior and came to the surface (was a few weeks ago) and was hanging on the trading roads near candlekeep, with Ki Step this is impossible...I tried it and died, twice. Also Ki Jump is still very glitchy and doesn't always work when you click; which results in the 5- 15 monsters you were running away from to catch up and all hit you at once (guilty of this)

Also Ki Jump does NOT work when you are knocked down...I tried it, 8 times - I couldn't move; the only time it does work is if you are lying down as an emote; then it works, but this is more of a glitch and not game breaking, if people think I am making this up I will happy upload a video to show you.

Ki jump alerts monsters who will chase you and although you can jump away; they will still chase you (I tried it), where Ki jump really shines is on open world maps where you can litterly KI jump across, I agree - this is wrong and needs to be fixed.

If the range is limited, there is a cooldown and/or additional uses cost stunning fist uses I think it's ok.

This is all that needs to be done, removing the feat is a bit unfair and would cause a lot of headache to players who already have it, granted not many play monk toons - but characters like Penny and Manah would be punished for taking the feat - and it isn't our fault, we both took it because it fits our characters.

For your reference I have uploaded the full description of the Ki Jump:



Ultimately, it is up to the DMs (god help us!) to fix this as they see fit - I just hope they do the right thing and make it 'balanced' and not beat it into submission because it is only the minority who play monks, so naturally the majority who don't act on what they see; in cases like this it is wise to play on both sides. If any big changes are to be done - that go outside the desciption - we should be allowed a feat refund, or free RCR.

[Steve]

There is currently, a 100% free RCR. As of yet, there is no DM-delivered warning as to when it will be returned to 50% or whatever, and even when that warning arrives, it has already been said the Playerbase will be given 1 week or longer to make final decisions.

All content brought online by the Big Update is considered "in testing," if I am not mistaken. That is exactly why it was released as it was, all bug ridden and wonderfully OP, in order to see how badly it could be broken and/or stand up to Full Server Use in a variety of implementations of builds and IG use.

I think the Playerbase was duly warned in the beginning.

[trogers2]

There is currently, a 100% free RCR. As of yet, there is no DM-delivered warning as to when it will be returned to 50% or whatever, and even when that warning arrives, it has already been said the Playerbase will be given 1 week or longer to make final decisions.

All content brought online by the Big Update is considered "in testing," if I am not mistaken. That is exactly why it was released as it was, all bug ridden and wonderfully OP, in order to see how badly it could be broken and/or stand up to Full Server Use in a variety of implementations of builds and IG use.

I think the Playerbase was duly warned in the beginning.

Yes Steve - but Ki Jump was here; before the 'big update' and I saw it used (but didn't know what it was) now, however a lot more people are aware of it. I am saying, if the 'fix' to Ki Jump takes place when the RCR goes back to 50% i.e the fix is introduced 6 months from now when things go back to normal then we should be allowed a free feat, or RCR - if the fix is done next week, then great - no complaints here.

My only concern is things will settle, then bam - 5 min cooldown, 3 stunning fist uses for Ki Jump; or worse - remove it, without any of us getting compensated for it. The 'fix' should match what the description says, then it would be fair - how would you like it if you brought a car, then over night the terms and conditions changed, without your concent and claimed you did not own the car anymore?

[chad878262]

removing it would open a big can of worms as players that had taken it would be forced to RCR, or lose a feat - and what happens when the RCR goes back to 50% are we expected to just 'deal with it'?

This doesn't really hold water as the feat was only added in the current update and all of the new content has been stated many times it is subject to change or reversion. If there is not a balanced way to implement it very well could be removed. Not saying it WILL be, but if folks have RCR'd to get this new feat on their PC, or built a new one since the change went in they will simply need to RCR if it is removed. RCR has not been announced when it will no longer be at 100% and when it is announced DM's have stated they will provide advanced notice, so it won't just disappear suddenly.

It will be discussed in QC, modified or removes as determined most appropriate by what is balanced and what is executable within the limitations of the engine by our developers. If a balanced implementation is determined it will be modified as such, but may look nothing like it does right now. If anything balanced we come up with can't be implemented easily it could be removed, and if so it would be in the release notes Duster posts after updates.

blinding speed is part of who a monk is; granted jumping across the map is taking it too far but 'short jumps' should be possible for a monk class.

So wouldn't some sort of speed boost be more akin to this feat than an instant teleport?

It has been pointed out that some monsters have very high spot checks and can see through invisibility; however I still see a lot of players

apparently you hang around with True Sight/See Invisibility/whatever and a high spot skill... Otherwise how would you 'see' these players?

the latest one in Durlags tower where he just ran by looting all the chests

Screen shots of someone using stealth or even invisibility in durlags please... invisibility breaks when you open a chest and most of the monsters see through it. I have been in there with Hide/Move Silently of 78 and still get spotted within a few rounds. If folks can now stealth through durlags it is only because something broke.


In any case, just understand any comments I make are just my thoughts, this still needs to be considered by QC. Ki Step was only made instant/point and click in this update.

[Theodore01]

Would really love to see all the other new feats made working - as to screw the one that works so well

\\... just joking.

[trogers2]

This doesn't really hold water as the feat was only added in the current update

Are you sure? I believe I saw Penny use it before the big update; however I would need to ask her to confirm this - I wasn't aware of the skill until later though (I play a monk)

It will be discussed in QC, modified or removes as determined most appropriate by what is balanced and what is executable within the limitations of the engine by our developers. If a balanced implementation is determined it will be modified as such, but may look nothing like it does right now. If anything balanced we come up with can't be implemented easily it could be removed, and if so it would be in the release notes Duster posts after updates.

I am totally cool with that, remove it, hammer it into the ground or make it 'balanced' - as long as we get a chance to compensate for it, if this was new content - and we are given the chance to fix it before the 50% RCR, then I am happy - thats all I ask, all I ask is for peace of mind, it isn't a big thing to ask for is it? My only worry is if something goes wrong, or I have to go away and come back with the feat 'removed' because the QC team (no disrespect) are unable to balance it, you could say it is my fault because it was 'testing only' but it still feels like a slap in the face to me, if you can try and see it from my prospective, if you went away for 6 months and came back with 4 feats missing from your toon.

So wouldn't some sort of speed boost be more akin to this feat than an instant teleport?

That would work, if it can be done.

apparently you hang around with True Sight/See Invisibility/whatever and a high spot skill... Otherwise how would you 'see' these players?

A lot of people do lol, I see players cast it over, and over at campfires (in RP) or before going into ruins - why? No idea; I can think of a few who do but not naming any names. I myself can't - never used it; but I do see 'floating text' like "hello" appear (although you are right, it might just be stealth)

Screen shots of someone using stealth or even invisibility in durlags please... invisibility breaks when you open a chest and most of the monsters see through it. I have been in there with Hide/Move Silently of 78 and still get spotted within a few rounds. If folks can now stealth through durlags it is only because something broke.

I am sorry It honestly did not occur to me at the time, ironically I was there to test Ki Jump (last night) but I did see doors open by themselfs and chests also 'open' (maybe they were haughted?

[chad878262]

Are you sure? I believe I saw Penny use it before the big update; however I would need to ask her to confirm this - I wasn't aware of the skill until later though (I play a monk)

It became instantly activated click and go with the update, before update it had to be 'cast' making it somewhat useless in combat situations.

I am sorry It honestly did not occur to me at the time, ironically I was there to test Ki Jump (last night) but I did see doors open by themselfs and chests also 'open' (maybe they were haughted?

hmmm...this is disturbing. Opening chests breaks stealth, invisibility, etherealness, everything that would make you hidden. This will need further review/testing.

[Thorsson]

It could be lag.

[Duster47]

Patch applied. Report new problems in the 1Apr2016 Update Bug Thread.

[Arn]

Thank you for the patch! Stunning Fist uses are consumed properly now, as per the feat description (including the "refund" after two minutes). Range is still unlimited, and there is still no cooldown.

[Dagesh]