Cleric and Bard question

[chad878262]

Pure fighter doesn't have all the spells, songs and inspirations a bard has, not to mention skill access and skill points... it should have more damage output and AC starting out than a bard. Fully buffed the bard can do more damage or have more AC, but not forever.

[Tsidkenu]

If you want your bard to have more flavour there are already plenty of PRCs for you to choose from- Stormsinger, Dissonant Chord, Pale Master, Harper Scout/Mage, Shadowdancer, Duelist, Assassin, Warrior of Darkness/Annointed Knight, Blackguard, Arcane Archer.

The feats you describe were never needed on BGTSCC as there were already plenty of build options for the class. I suspect that is the way things will remain although you're always welcome to ask.

[ARHicks00]

Pure fighter doesn't have all the spells, songs and inspirations a bard has, not to mention skill access and skill points... it should have more damage output and AC starting out than a bard. Fully buffed the bard can do more damage or have more AC, but not forever.

From page 1...

As Steve pointed a pure STR bard can go two handed and blitz through everything thanks to mirror and displacement, if you prefer you can go with a shield which will be slower but still completely ok.

Going pure STR bard on a human with a shield, IPA with longsword.

AB : 22 (BAB) + 11 (STR) + 2 (feats) + 4 (EB) + 7 (inspire courage) + 4 (GH) - 6 (IPA) = 44 AB

Damage : 1d8 (base) + 4 (EB) + 6 (IPA) + 11 (STR) + 7 (inspire courage) = 32.5 damage

AC : 10 (base) + 1 (LoH) + 3 (tumble) + 4 (DEX) + 6 (mith chain mail) + 2 (heavy shield) 5*4 (enchant, enchant, dodge, deflection, natural) = 46 AC

You've got Rektquiem, song of heroism and curse song. What's going to stop you ? (nothing and usually you can go two handed for 12 more damage). I'm not even counting haste or war cry or sonic weapon...

Except he said two handed weapon a bard, not a sword and board bard.

Pure Fighter with main hand weapon specialization 6 + Strength 12 using +4 Strength item or potion + IPA 6 + Melee Mastery 2 + 1d8 longsword with +4 enchantment = 30 to 37. (60 to 74 critical)

Off-handed shield pecialization 2 + Strength 12 using +4 Strength item or potion + IPA 6 + 1d6 tower shield with +4 enchantment = 25 to 30 (50 to 60)

Accumulate damage from 6 main hand attacks with 3 off hand attacks is 255 (450 critical) to 312 (528 critical) Where as the bard us is 28 to 35 per hit with a shield and a total of total of 196 (392 critical) to 245 (490) with haste and Legionarrie march. Bard's highest out in melee doesn't reach the fighter's lowest melee output.

Mithril Fullplate 8 with 16/+3 using +3 Dexterity item or potion for 11 + Tumble 1 + Luck of Heroes 1 + Weapon Supremacy 1 + Shield specialization 1 + Having all five +4 enchantments for 20 + Base AC 10 is 44 with no shield and with a tower shield 49.

That is not even the point as a sword and board bard would probably do better with shield bash feats. However his AB would be much lower. For a fact a good bard is one that can land all his hit, which is why I asked about those feat.

FYI a fighter can get 55 AB in this server with max equipment to a bard's 44 to 50.

[ARHicks00]

If you want your bard to have more flavour there are already plenty of PRCs for you to choose from- Stormsinger, Dissonant Chord, Pale Master, Harper Scout/Mage, Shadowdancer, Duelist, Assassin, Warrior of Darkness/Annointed Knight, Blackguard, Arcane Archer.

None of these PrCs except Stormsinger and Dissonant Chord. I don't think you even play these classes on this server. I've played both and DC is ONLY good in Dalelands. Stormsinger is bad and this is from someone who played a Bard/Cleric/Canaith Lyricist/Stormsinger. With the extra feats gone, it's not even worth getting and Bards already have no problem causing Sorcerers to break concentration if the sorcerer doesn't have energy immune. Harper Scout is just bad for a number of reason as they were in NWN 1. The other PrCs you mentioned are not even worth discussing because again, you either lying or being intellectual dishonest. ONCE AGAIN, I've played all these classes, they don't help the bard's progression at all. And once again, you're talking in terms of character builds...bad ones at that.

The feats you describe were never needed on BGTSCC as there were already plenty of build options for the class.

None of them emphasis Bard based feats. Rather the suggestions are just one for a generic adventure build. Again, thanks, but this topic is done.

[Tsidkenu]

Sweeping judgements, gross generalisations and outright unnecessary rudeness aside, it seems to me that your heart was already set on Kaedrin's Dalelands bards and their feats. So yes, further discussion is rather frivolous despite the myriad of options already available to bard players here (of which I am one such example).

I'll ask another mod to lock this topic please, as per OP's request.

[Maecius]

Locked, per request.