Cleric and Bard question

[ARHicks00]

When switching Gods, do you switch domains too? Also why no Body of the Sun spell, in the Sun domain? The spell helps fighy undead.

Also why doesn't the bard have access to other Bard feats like Melodic Casting, Battle Dancer, Epic Skill Focus, Snowflake dance, Perform, or Song of Heart. Does server hate bards or something?

[Valefort]

You can have to switch domains if the new god doesn't have the same domains as the first one.

Body of the sun is not a sun domain pnp spell.

Bards don't need any of those feats to rock, don't expect those to be available.

[ARHicks00]

You can have to switch domains if the new god doesn't have the same domains as the first one.

Body of the sun is not a sun domain pnp spell.

Bards don't need any of those feats to rock, don't expect those to be available.

1. Does the deity switcher npc allow you to switch domains

2. A lot of pnp stuff isn't in this game, but the spell is still in the game. I thought it be cool if Sun Somain clerics could have this ability too.

3. Still it would be nice to have that option since other classes have selectable class feat options too.

[Valefort]

1. No, you'll need to ask a DM or to RCR (right time for it after all).

2. Fair argument but I think it's cooler if they don't as melee clerics don't particularly need help.

3. It wouldn't be nice at all, bards builds are among the most powerful already.

[ARHicks00]

1. No, you'll need to ask a DM or to RCR (right time for it after all).

2. Fair argument but I think it's cooler if they don't as melee clerics don't particularly need help.

3. It wouldn't be nice at all, bards builds are among the most powerful already.

1. Okay.

2. But I like my clerics to be flashy as they are zombie killing. Plus, BotS is good against undead.

3. But I don't want to play a one dimensional bard who dumps everything into charisma. Bards deserve diversity in their gameplay too.

[Valefort]

You can play STR bards, CHA bards, DEX/INT bards, there's really no issue for them !

[ARHicks00]

You can play STR bards, CHA bards, DEX/INT bards, there's really no issue for them !

Not much to build for a strength based bard since the only thing they can use that is good NWH. They lack two handed weapons. You can do Shield bash build, but that eats up all your feats and shield bash builds are better if have a high AB (40 or above) while using a tower shield. (Pure fighter build did 13 normal damge anand 26 critical with a +4 tower shield)

Dexterity builds are good with dual wielding and archery. You can sub-tank if you are a parry skilled focused. Your will do low damage though.

Charisma builds are just wannabe sorcerers and can't really capitalize melee wise unless you EDM the build.

[Steve]

It's Bard Bashing Sunday!!!

I have to add in opposition: I'm very happy with my 2-handed weapon STR bard. In early epic levels, he regularly hits for 47 dmg, with reaching 115 dmg on critical hits. No mobs can touch him with low 40's AC plus Mirrors and Displacement spells. Using a weapon with Vamp. Regen also means he never losses much HP. Add to that the massive amount of high CL potions and elixirs available to any PC on BGTSCC...well, you get me meaning, I hope.

Put my Bard in a Party where his Songs would exponentially increase the Group effort, and Shazaam! No contest anywhere.

NERF BARDS!!!! They make Favored Souls look weak.

[ARHicks00]

It's Bard Bashing Sunday!!!

I have to add in opposition: I'm very happy with my 2-handed weapon STR bard. In early epic levels, he regularly hits for 47 dmg, with reaching 115 dmg on critical hits. No mobs can touch him with low 40's AC plus Mirrors and Displacement spells. Using a weapon with Vamp. Regen also means he never losses much HP. Add to that the massive amount of high CL potions and elixirs available to any PC on BGTSCC...well, you get me meaning, I hope.

Put my Bard in a Party where his Songs would exponentially increase the Group effort, and Shazaam! No contest anywhere.

NERF BARDS!!!! They make Favored Souls look weak.

1. No one said they can't two handed, but compared to others they require a lot more work. You can cross class, but I am mainly talk pure bard. (As other classes have nothing to do with the class itself) We aren't talking character builds. It is like my last topic when I asked whether or not the pure fighter can being viable build and I got a lot of Fighter/Rogue suggestions that had nothing to do with the topic. I am ASSUMING people who do this are being intellectually dishonest or they didn't comprehend what said. I tend to think people are doing the former than latter because they either don't like uncomfortable subjects or don't like questions/suggestions that can bring about change.

2. Favored Souls are already weak and don't have many classes to cross class with, making them essential boring (Allowing them to cross class Hierophant would not hurt)...but that is neither here or there.

[Steve]

*waits for M3nt to show up with his naked 30 levels Bard STR screenshots*

The last post was the first time you specifically mention "pure bard." Had you actually said that in your OP, then we could talk honestly! lol.

BTW, a pure fighter can be very viable. It is simple the situation that a) we DO HAVE access to multi-classing, which is mechanically proven to be mostly better than any pure class (though Bard, Paladin, Ranger are super good pure); b) you only choose to make your build weak, because between examples on NWN2db or our Building Forum, there is a plethora of advice that literally guides you to mastering building a powerful build (or even a weak build!!!).

If you are now arguing that weak = boring, then...that is just subjectivity that really has no reasonable answer to discuss. It comes down to what you like, and what you don't. That to has nothing to do about "bringing about change."

[ARHicks00]

*waits for M3nt to show up with his naked 30 levels Bard STR screenshots*

The last post was the first time you specifically mention "pure bard." Had you actually said that in your OP, then we could talk honestly! lol.

BTW, a pure fighter can be very viable. It is simple the situation that a) we DO HAVE access to multi-classing, which is mechanically proven to be mostly better than any pure class (though Bard, Paladin, Ranger are super good pure); b) you only choose to make your build weak, because between examples on NWN2db or our Building Forum, there is a plethora of advice that literally guides you to mastering building a powerful build (or even a weak build!!!).

If you are now arguing that weak = boring, then...that is just subjectivity that really has no reasonable answer to discuss. It comes down to what you like, and what you don't. That to has nothing to do about "bringing about change."

1. Fair, but I would think cleric and bard in the title would make peopke focus on those class aspects specfically.

2a. I know. I had to find out this out for myself since I did not get a lot foreknowledge. I got bored due to the lack of skills. Lore - Dungeoneering is a crap skill as I rarely use it.

2b. Thanks, but this is something better answer in that topic.

3. As someone who has made countless character builds that use 2 to 4 classes, I much prefer pure classing. ALTHOUGH, cross classing is not out of the question. The reason I pure class is for simplisticity sake.

4. I am not sure what you are saying here. It has nothing to do with weak or boring. Whenever I build a character, I build with the intent of it having a heavy RP theme, but is able use it's abilities and skill to it's fullest. Be it cross class or pure class. I rarely build with the intent to dominate the server.

That is all.

[Valefort]

As Steve pointed a pure STR bard can go two handed and blitz through everything thanks to mirror and displacement, if you prefer you can go with a shield which will be slower but still completely ok.

Going pure STR bard on a human with a shield, IPA with longsword.

AB : 22 (BAB) + 11 (STR) + 2 (feats) + 4 (EB) + 7 (inspire courage) + 4 (GH) - 6 (IPA) = 44 AB

Damage : 1d8 (base) + 4 (EB) + 6 (IPA) + 11 (STR) + 7 (inspire courage) = 32.5 damage

AC : 10 (base) + 1 (LoH) + 3 (tumble) + 4 (DEX) + 6 (mith chain mail) + 2 (heavy shield) 5*4 (enchant, enchant, dodge, deflection, natural) = 46 AC

You've got Rektquiem, song of heroism and curse song. What's going to stop you ? (nothing and usually you can go two handed for 12 more damage). I'm not even counting haste or war cry or sonic weapon...

[ARHicks00]

As Steve pointed a pure STR bard can go two handed and blitz through everything thanks to mirror and displacement, if you prefer you can go with a shield which will be slower but still completely ok.

Going pure STR bard on a human with a shield, IPA with longsword.

AB : 22 (BAB) + 11 (STR) + 2 (feats) + 4 (EB) + 7 (inspire courage) + 4 (GH) - 6 (IPA) = 44 AB

Damage : 1d8 (base) + 4 (EB) + 6 (IPA) + 11 (STR) + 7 (inspire courage) = 32.5 damage

AC : 10 (base) + 1 (LoH) + 3 (tumble) + 4 (DEX) + 6 (mith chain mail) + 2 (heavy shield) 5*4 (enchant, enchant, dodge, deflection, natural) = 46 AC

You've got Rektquiem, song of heroism and curse song. What's going to stop you ? (nothing and usually you can go two handed for 12 more damage). I'm not even counting haste or war cry or sonic weapon...

Except he said two handed weapon a bard, not a sword and board bard.

Pure Fighter with main hand weapon specialization 6 + Strength 12 using +4 Strength item or potion + IPA 6 + Melee Mastery 2 + 1d8 longsword with +4 enchantment = 30 to 37. (60 to 74 critical)

Off-handed shield pecialization 2 + Strength 12 using +4 Strength item or potion + IPA 6 + 1d6 tower shield with +4 enchantment = 25 to 30 (50 to 60)

Accumulate damage from 6 main hand attacks with 3 off hand attacks is 255 (450 critical) to 312 (528 critical) Where as the bard us is 28 to 35 per hit with a shield and a total of total of 196 (392 critical) to 245 (490) with haste and Legionarrie march. Bard's highest out in melee doesn't reach the fighter's lowest melee output.

Mithril Fullplate 8 with 16/+3 using +3 Dexterity item or potion for 11 + Tumble 1 + Luck of Heroes 1 + Weapon Supremacy 1 + Shield specialization 1 + Having all five +4 enchantments for 20 + Base AC 10 is 44 with no shield and with a shield 49.

That is not even the point as a sword and board bard would probably do better with shield bash feats. However his AB would be much lower. For a fact a good bard is one that can land all his hit, which is why I asked about those feat.

FYI a fighter can get 55 AB in this server with max equipment to a bard's 44 to 50.

[Valefort]

I said you could go with shield if you wanted, and precised it wasn't necessary. Hopefully a bard doesn't reach a fighter's AB or damage with a weapon ! That's precisely why these feats are never going in, after all bards got a whole array of tricks up their sleeves to make up for that with their spells and songs.

[chad878262]

B24/F3/R3... Played one for a long while, still have it and works well. CL28, Evasion/EW, Hymn of Requiem, Chorus of Heroism, Steadfast Determination and great versatility between either Sword and Board or Two handing.

Nothing stops B30 from Two Handing a Longsword either, no feat requirement to do so since Bards get Longsword proficiency. However, mixing in Fighter I can ward up and equip a +4 Tower Shield for AC in the 50's with mirrors and displacement. Now, since I went more defensive with my feats he doesn't have IPA or NH or anything, so his damage is a bit lower, but he is basically unhittable in melee and very difficult for casters to do much against. Even if he get's hit with mords/breach his defenses are such that he retains the majority of his effectiveness. Add in the natural versatility from Bardic Inspirations and songs (flipping between bonus to skills, AB/Damage, AC, Regen, etc.) and you have a very fun build and a near limitless list of options for RP.