Rules - My Opinions

[Snarfy]

^ - ... what ajcolt said.

Until you're able to practice what you preach, and exhibit behavior that even vaguely resembles treatment towards other players how you, quite forcefully, ask to be treated, then these redundant(IMHO) topics of yours are likely going to continue to fall on reluctant, and/or deaf ears.

[Cinnamon]

I apologize for the harshness of my opinion. I feel it need be said.

I feel all of this is just a form of emotional manipulation of those who feel underprivileged in any attempt to gather their support for your own goals and egocentric vision of the server. I don't feel that anyone in your chosen sphere has any value to you outside of what they can do for you. If you reach your goals to your own satisfaction then those underprivileged who helped you no longer have value and you will treat them accordingly.

The would be a viable opinion to have...


Were it that I not felt I was working entirely independently and only through sheer chance of reigniting the fires of old debate, was I named as having any movement made.

I feel it is more a test of my resolve at this point in time.

But let's go over that statement...

support for your own goals and egocentric vision of the server.

Laughable. I do everything because I have continually heard others commenting they want X, or Y, or there's not enough B.

I have fielded the data entries to the team as a collective. I am online, and I am a walking mailbox of information by such merits.

egocentric vision of the server

Odd, the Staff know I think BGTSCC is completely opposing to my own taste. I value only freedom to play baseline concepts.

I would rather use Haven's system, or NWN2Vault's Monsterpaks and there's nothing that will ever move BGTSCC towards such systems. This is a slow grind server.

I don't feel that anyone in your chosen sphere has any value to you outside of what they can do for you.

Chosen sphere? Go ask players who are known to me how often I actually talk to them. I spend all my time playing or working on things to play.

It's a dangerous thing to accuse me of vouching and judging who is fit to come and be apart of "my domain". If I believed such values, I'd have made my own server by now. Evidently, I am quite the contrary, because I am still here.

I only ever message them because of RP we did, cleaning up, small chit chats, or if they message me.
I almost never message other people as far as a routine goes, there may be sprees of activity or bursts, but my socialising is quite limited.

If you reach your goals to your own satisfaction then those underprivileged who helped you no longer have value and you will treat them accordingly.

I see. So you feel I am not the least underpriviledged and disadvantaged member of the community at this time?

Interesting. Completely laughable, but interesting all the same.

The things this Community raises to my attention never ceases to both make me cry in pain but smile in some amount of laughter or confusion.

I cannot even comprehend where these radical notions begin or why they need be brought to my attention.

I'm manic, granted, I have my moments, granted, but really? Through a relapse I'm supposed to be emotionally manipulating people?

That's a low opinion to have of another Community User, frankly put.

[Cinnamon]

^ - ... what ajcolt said.

Until you're able to practice what you preach, and exhibit behavior that even vaguely resembles treatment towards other players how you, quite forcefully, ask to be treated, then these redundant(IMHO) topics of yours are likely going to continue to fall on reluctant, and/or deaf ears.

"Wait long enough and the cracks always show."

[Shadowspinner70]

I'm gonna . . . go through all of the quoted rules Cinn listed (briefly) and give my perspective on those before the thread gets locked. If anyone wants me to explain my perspective a little more, all good! Plus formatting because chat wall.

"Play Your Sheet"
If the race on your character sheet specifies that you are a human fighter, you are a human fighter and not a yugoloth wizard, polymorphed dragon, etc. and roleplaying as if you are otherwise (even under the guise of "insanity") is not acceptable. However, in-character deception regarding your character's abilities and moral leanings is fine.

Personally, I like this ruling for this reason: "[If] you are a human fighter, you are a human fighter and not a yugoloth wizard, polymorphed dragon, etc." If there are classes, like Cinnamon pointed out, that specifically change the character, I'd be happy to have the PrC implemented or simply ask DMs. I have a Hierophant of Gargauth. Were it possible, I would make her a Malefactor, where eventually the priest takes on fiendish features. They might get clawed hands, reddish eyes, slitted pupils, maybe even a bit of a hunched back.

At that point, I would request to have my race changed into a tiefling or the feat Fiendish Heritage, or just rebuild her.

Griefing
Do not intentionally disrupt or harass other players, either with mechanics or other means. This includes, but is not limited to, stealing from campfires/packhorses, exploiting summons to bypass PvP rules, or herding enemies to have them attack players.

Easy peasy rule here. Player harassment, slander, and the like are covered by another rule.

Unusual Characters
Every character must be a legal adult (18 years of age for humans or the racial equivalent for nonhumans). No exceptions.

While most DM stances on certain events are covered under the DM Rulings topic, if you have a character concept that's out of the ordinary (e.g. atypical background/heritage, nobility, contact with lore NPCs, or a concept that can't be adequately described on your character sheet), send a request to the DM Team who will clarify and deal with any outstanding issues.

Red Wizard and Shadow Adept are no longer locked by request. Personally, I don't mind what you do as long as it's supported by lore and I'd have unusual concepts checked with the Team anyway.

Surface/Underdark Travel
Characters flagged as a surface race in the Underdark, and Underdark characters on the surface, will not gain any EXP from enemy kills or loot from chests in areas that are flagged on the side that isn't theirs.

My drow hasn't been able to loot on the surface. With the loot update, I can certainly check again with my drow to see if Cinnamon is correct on the loot script being reversed.

Skill Rolls
You may use them as a guideline for RP, but only a DM can enforce skill rolls and the results.

That works. You have no idea how many times people roll CHA or diplomacy to get across some insane idea or to have another character "attracted" to them. I generally adhere to physical skill rolls such as spot and listen, but don't with those social skill rolls for that reason.

Regarding character builds, keep in mind that players are responsible for ensuring their build is correct. DMs are not obligated to offer assistance if a character's build goes awry due to personal error.

As Cinn pointed out, the rule does need to clarify that bugs and glitches can be helped (if they can be). If it's a separate rule somewhere, just put them in the same area since they would be an exception.

3-By-20 (3b20)
Your character must have at least 3 levels in every class their build plans to take when they reach character level 20, even if you are using a 100% RCR function. Prestige classes are included. So a Rogue 11/Assassin 6/Fighter 3 is valid, but a Rogue 11/Assassin 7/Fighter 2 would be invalid (Fighter only has 2 levels by level 20).

Personally, I'd prefer having only this rule over nerfs and this rule. There are some classes that powerbuilders do take only one level of: shadowdancer and cleric, for example. I could probably count off a good few if I go through the NWN2db.

AFK Grinding/Botting
Don't do this. This includes automated scripts for fishing, loot runs, emotes for RP EXP, and other activities that help make your EXP/loot numbers go up with little to no input from yourself.

Aliases and macros are fine, but under no circumstances should your character perform any actions without your involvement at the keyboard.

As Cinn said, just have a blanket rule. No scripts.

Sending (Spell)
- The message is received mentally. No one in the vicinity of the recipient can hear the message.
- The caster of the spell needs to speak aloud (or in a whisper).

Whisper works! People also have different methods for follow-up messages but I usually just leave that to the other player; at least have the initial sending be a sending.

PVP and the Friendly Arm Inn
On PvP: PvP on this map is not allowed inside the courtyard of the Inn, in front of the gate to the Inn or in front of the Order of the Silver Rose Keep.

Cinn makes a good point here; check out their post.

Half-Drow Appearance
For in character purposes, Half-Drow will be viewed as and treated as legally and socially indistinct from full Drow by in character polities and NPCs of the surface. Further, all characters that are Half-Drow must have their standard in character appearance depicted at character creation and thereafter with dusky skin and silver or white hair, with a broad range of eye colors allowed, per DM Team interpretation of Forgotten Realms lore on the topic. Characters that date before this ruling and that do not comply with the appearance ruling herein may request a one-time 100% RCR, but otherwise normal RCR rules will apply.

This rule should be more visible. A lot of the people who make half-drow that don't follow it are completely unaware. For example, I was unaware of the server rules until I came onto the forums.

Capture Rule
If a player's PC is captured by another faction or PC, the RP for the capture is to be completed within 72 hours. If the player's character has not been rescued we either expect the captors to allow the character in question the ability to escape, or to execute the prisoner(this is up to the captors). If the captor cannot do this in 72 hours, the character is to be believed to have escaped and is back in the game.

I'd either make the rule about consent, as Cinnamon suggested, or I'd do the three days and then allow the player to give permission to have the capture for even longer, then perhaps that player sends the permission to the DM Team? No response needed beyond a "kk sport."

Appraise System Limitations
Until further notice, the Appraise mechanic listed in game cannot be used to determine the race of a PC that is fully masked or wearing a helmet. It does not comply with the current set of rules that we have listed on the forums.

This should be lumped with the disguise mechanic rule. Iirc, disguise is also not enforceable because the function does not mask race. I'd personally have this with all of the disguise rules and the rules regarding drow on the surface (ex. height, accents, and funny names are not indicators of drow-ness).

Alignment detection
Smite Evil is not to be used as a substitute to Detect Evil in non combat situations in order to detect alignment. It is a breach of the Paladin Code to strike someone to slay them when there is uncertainty as to whether death is deserved. The feedback given in the combat log should not be used to determine whether a PC is evil or not. This extends to any spells that have their effects only resolve on a certain alignment.

I agree with Cinnamon. If it's smite evil, and the person is smited (smitten?) successfully . . . there's that. However! "Smite Evil is not to be used as a substitute to Detect Evil in non combat situations in order to detect alignment. It is a breach of the Paladin Code to strike someone to slay them when there is uncertainty as to whether death is deserved." This needs to be underlined.

The same goes for (I believe it's called) Laeria's bolts, where the spell only does a lethal blow on evil characters.

Slavery
Slavery is not allowed among PCs. This has in the past led to RP that is outside the PG-13 rating of the server and as such has been banned.

The server is a PG-13 server. Some people comply, others don't. ERP, torture, and basically doing anything without the player's consent is against the rules so the current rules would cover those situations without outright banning it. I personally don't mind this rule in place and understand that this is to keep people from their drow mistress fantasies (so many thanks, Aunrae has enough simps).

Screenshots sent to the DM Team clearly showing a PC emoting hostility, or initiating PvP, in sight of NPC guards (Baldur's Gate, the Friendly Arm Inn, or any map with an NPC guard/watchman) may result in a hanging and/or perma-strike against the PC. The only exception is when a DM is supervising the conflict, and with guild NPCs in a guildhall (see RP Outs, PvP Consent, and Toggling Hostile).

I'd say this falls under metagaming NPCs. I don't see an issue with this.

Refrain from discussing politics and religion on the forums.

Imo, the clarification isn't needed.

Do not share or disclose other people's personal/private information without their consent, either through public forums or private messages.
Details such as real names or e-mail addresses can be used by those with ill intent for malicious purposes. More information can be found here: User Agreement.

I've never heard of anyone posting someone else's image on the forums or private messages. Private information, o boy.

New Rule Suggestion;

When buying a Tavern or otherwise Land for temporary Space, you do not own it beyond the day you paid for it and nor do you own or permit any NPC actions within the residency or Field of space.

You can buy taverns? I know people will rent out inn rooms or temporarily use an empty home as a stand-in for their own, but I haven't heard of anyone buying a whole tavern for the day until today.

Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.

[Dr_Shadelore]

I'm going to impart a little advice into this thread as, I hope, my insight will help. I've been a local on BG for about a year now so one would consider me a new player to the server but -not- to Nwn2. As a new player to the server I have only ever noticed one rp exclusion when playing my ranger and I brushed it off because, honestly, if a character doesn't see the need to interact then that's up to them I can't -beg- them for attention and I think, in any long standing server, that is the issue: Players want to advance their characters and literally beg for DM/ Veteran attention. Does them ignoring me make them a bully/ griefer? No, they simply don't know me or my play-style because they've not seen my name for years.

To flip the coin though, as a Player, I am a 10 year veteran of Sigil, The city of doors who's characters have been involved in some pretty deep world-building rp/ content. Does that automatically make me an excellent rp'er: nope. So it's either I'm a good rp'er and not been taken notice of because of veterans or cliques or I'm a bad rp'er because I've not been on the server for as long as some. Either way both scenario's on a newer players abilities are exclusive and ultimately damages server life. This particular topic grabbed my attention because I Do Not want to see the same behavioral patterns emerge here as on some other servers where new players feel they cannot approach older players [IC'ly or OOC'ly] because they feel threatened by their standing and their ability to have them socially exiled from RP or the forums and, trust me, I've seen this happen before.

Now this post is certainly not an attack on anyone as both sides of this argument hold weight and merit but there seems to be an air of us and them to the community of this server with no clear definition of who us and them are. Weird huh? As formerly mentioned I might be a new player to the server but not to Neverwinter Night 2 so to the new and old players I offer this advice:

New Players: Do Not be intimidated by older players. RP your character by the book and add yourself a little flavor to your character to make them interesting but do not expect immediate elevation to a higher social status because it won't happen overnight. RP your character to the best of your ability and, if you find older players griefing you for it, explain that you're new/ not english/ etc and if they do not understand that then simply don't rp with them. Eventually you'll make friends and have your own clique. If you struggle to interact with veteran players then you can always send me a tell or message on the forums@Dr_Shadelore and I can give you further advice because I am where you are save for 10 years experience on another server.

Older Players: You were new once and how did you feel when you came across an old dog who gave you jip for your undefined rp style? Not everyone has to rp to your standards because some people may have difficulty grasping the english language or might be uncomfortable. It's not up to anyone to police RP styles and ignoring a new player on that basis is not only arrogant but damaging to the server. I get it your character of X years is special to you but so are the characters of a newer player to the server such as my main, Malekyth Illi'thana, that dude has 20 years of backstory from PnP to Nwn2 and without an opportunity to rp on a medium rp server you'd never learn that. Give new players a chance you never know what you'll discover.


To finalize: Rules are rules and subject to change and half of the comments here are people defending one corner or the other and offering no actual logical discussion instead everyone's getting worked up and becoming a little over sensitive or critical. People need to chill, seriously.

[MrSmith]

…alleviate your frustrations.

Naw […] Just expressing how I felt…

This exchange between Steve and Cinnamon is very insightful when observed from a Performance-Coach’s point of view. Typically, people become frustrated when they feel one or more of their core values is being suppressed or violated. It sounds like there is a core value here.

Player - character values.

I opine it’s difficult, but not impossible, for anyone to separate their own innate values from those of their character, no matter the alignment. Personally, I find it very challenging and emotionally fatiguing to play characters whose alignment and values are polar opposites of my own… which may be the reason I don’t play those characters very often.

Steve offered sage advice, if in-game actions (RP) frustrate you, take a break for a while. If OOC actions frustrate you, then use OOC appropriate tools to communicate the concern… and then move on.

Cheers!