Rules - My Opinions

[Cinnamon]

"Play Your Sheet"
If the race on your character sheet specifies that you are a human fighter, you are a human fighter and not a yugoloth wizard, polymorphed dragon, etc. and roleplaying as if you are otherwise (even under the guise of "insanity") is not acceptable. However, in-character deception regarding your character's abilities and moral leanings is fine.

Word it better. As it stands, as an Ibrandul Faithful, for example, I actually am not an Ibrandulin, as I technically, by this rule, cannot have the Darkwalker Priest Speciality, nor can I have the Ceremony that makes me an Ibrandul in the first place, as it requires I take the Draconic Feat when it's not a Draconic Heritage idea. Whilst, yes, Ibrandlin is Dragon Blooded, you are not given the feat Lore-Book wise and having to take a feat that without, forces me to be a lv.5 character, is a bit random-ish.

I am of course looking to get a feat added in that encompasses these things, such as Celestial Heritage and other things, but in the meantime, there's not much argument for trying to cut content people will make regardless of this ruling.

AKA; Even without yadda yadda feats that should totally be in this module as a direct counterpart to something else, it should still be allowed and not denied because it's not a priority. This Ruling is often annoying for other people and not much myself, but even still, I have to bring it up a lot and it should be more lenient on the idea of innovative ideas that can't be supported simply because time restraints of staff over the years.

Griefing
Do not intentionally disrupt or harass other players, either with mechanics or other means. This includes, but is not limited to, stealing from campfires/packhorses, exploiting summons to bypass PvP rules, or herding enemies to have them attack players.

This needs a hard update. Currently, many players sit and faff about a Roundtable and gossip about other characters relentlessly until the entire server, ICly & OOCly, only believes a single pin-pointed narrative, which leads to a number of Players being treated poorly and sabotaged over pointless socialite RP as a consequence.

They need to either put up or shut up, really. We have loads of avenues to seek the truth or Temples for Council or punishment on characters, I really flat-out, regardless of any bias, will never understand why it's been "allowed" up to now. It's clearly an agenda, even if it's an accident, it shouldn't be this consistent.

Rumours are things you know have little to no truth, but the Server as a whole generally occupies that all rumours are quote & quote the truth and nothing will ever convince them otherwise because people told them it's true and it's a numbers game.

Which is frankly silly.

Anyway, it's a form of griefing, accidental or not, and should be clearly defined immediately.

EDIT:

Another part of this is Guilds that actively do completely non-interactive plotlines against other players.

We need a ruling that says after 10 days of scheming, you have to at least give a courtesy letter that you're an enemy and nothing more required, if the Guild or otherwise band is going to do something.

It's just frustrating to have a bomb dropped on you and then have to run around and RP with 30 different people.

I'm realistically the only one who has time to do things like this, and is henceforth why Rae has not been obliterated yet, because I have time to reach and have the voice to go and reach.

This is a roleplaying server set in the Forgotten Realms. This server is considered "medium RP" and thus while some OOC behavior is permitted (such as grinding monsters and quests for experience/loot), when interacting with others please stay in-character (IC) and clearly mark any out-of-character (OOC) text being spoken.

You need to explain what Medium RP actually means, in great detail. Whilst I'm a hardcore roleplayer, people still spam OOC at me and get annoyed when I don't respond quickly enough because I'm busy Roleplaying and they're interjecting pointlessly.

Speaking of, that should be a rule as well. If people are clearly RPing, do not go up to the group and start using multiple OOC remarks.
Either whisper someone whose Examine usually defines "I like whispers" or play a risk, do not disrupt a crowd with inappropriate OOC remarks.

Unusual Characters
Every character must be a legal adult (18 years of age for humans or the racial equivalent for nonhumans). No exceptions.

While most DM stances on certain events are covered under the DM Rulings topic, if you have a character concept that's out of the ordinary (e.g. atypical background/heritage, nobility, contact with lore NPCs, or a concept that can't be adequately described on your character sheet), send a request to the DM Team who will clarify and deal with any outstanding issues.

This causes inbox flooding. Just wait until someone breaks it and reprimanded them by making it clear, the Staff have clearly not wished to be pestered about petitions for content. Red Wizard is an example of this same reasoning, as was Shadow Priest.

Surface/Underdark Travel
Characters flagged as a surface race in the Underdark, and Underdark characters on the surface, will not gain any EXP from enemy kills or loot from chests in areas that are flagged on the side that isn't theirs.

This actually isn't true, you still get XP on either side.

Skill Rolls
You may use them as a guideline for RP, but only a DM can enforce skill rolls and the results.

Shit rule all around. Change it to "Only a DM can enforce godmoding of another character when they lose a roll."

Don't just flat-out void skills and rolls ever mattering.

Similarly, if there is an issue with lv.30s VS Noobs on skill checks, just enforce the rule that in these situations, only 1d20 matters with no Mods.

Beyond that, though, this server, the forums, and any interactions within them should be the equivalent of PG-13/Teen at most. No violations of this rule, not even within the privacy of an inn room or guild hall. This includes, but is not limited to, excessive vulgarity, gratuitous violence/torture, and graphic/extended sexual situations.

Clearly never followed by most players, why is it still a rule if people don't adhere to it at a whopping majority.

Regarding character builds, keep in mind that players are responsible for ensuring their build is correct. DMs are not obligated to offer assistance if a character's build goes awry due to personal error.

This rule needs an edit, currently no Staff member will fix Rae, despite the fact my build is messed up because Natural Spell is not properly labelled on any resource to do with BGTSCC, and the fact that Hierophant is super glitchy and has a chance of just not giving the qualification feat no matter what, but only if you go Lore Nature. Lore Religion is fine. Due to the Hierophant glitches, I keep getting stuck because I need to be 3by20.

Stuff like this, we should 100% get our levels back for, we shouldn't be forced to suffer and wait endlessly.

3-By-20 (3b20)
Your character must have at least 3 levels in every class their build plans to take when they reach character level 20, even if you are using a 100% RCR function. Prestige classes are included. So a Rogue 11/Assassin 6/Fighter 3 is valid, but a Rogue 11/Assassin 7/Fighter 2 would be invalid (Fighter only has 2 levels by level 20).

I hate this on a personal level. It gets in the way of RP Builds, change it to explain why it's a 3b20 and make exceptions because this rule is flat-out for some powerbuilding wrenches that even I do not understand how 3 levels matters at all. There's Fighter but there's a bunch of stuff for this too.

RP Builds usually do not give a flying hoot about this, but they do care about being gated when PRCs or interesting combinations cannot be done by 3by20 ruling.

AFK Grinding/Botting
Don't do this. This includes automated scripts for fishing, loot runs, emotes for RP EXP, and other activities that help make your EXP/loot numbers go up with little to no input from yourself.

Aliases and macros are fine, but under no circumstances should your character perform any actions without your involvement at the keyboard.

Again meh, some of us just don't have time to actively engage and RP when we came for a level-up or two before lunch break or whatever else.

I'd rather this just stuck to no script abuse.



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Sending (Spell)
- The message is received mentally. No one in the vicinity of the recipient can hear the message.
- The caster of the spell needs to speak aloud (or in a whisper).

As far as I know they must speak loud, but semantics.

PVP and the Friendly Arm Inn
On PvP: PvP on this map is not allowed inside the courtyard of the Inn, in front of the gate to the Inn or in front of the Order of the Silver Rose Keep.

I want clarification on this. Can I walk through this map as any Orc / Drow race with no covering.

Can I go around the Fence of Beregost, or is that considered godmoding Guards. / Even if it is but it's allowed - No. Guards kill Guards do Guard things.

Half-Drow Appearance
For in character purposes, Half-Drow will be viewed as and treated as legally and socially indistinct from full Drow by in character polities and NPCs of the surface. Further, all characters that are Half-Drow must have their standard in character appearance depicted at character creation and thereafter with dusky skin and silver or white hair, with a broad range of eye colors allowed, per DM Team interpretation of Forgotten Realms lore on the topic. Characters that date before this ruling and that do not comply with the appearance ruling herein may request a one-time 100% RCR, but otherwise normal RCR rules will apply.

Delete it. Nobody follows it, you can't force people to follow a terrible rule.

Capture Rule
If a player's PC is captured by another faction or PC, the RP for the capture is to be completed within 72 hours. If the player's character has not been rescued we either expect the captors to allow the character in question the ability to escape, or to execute the prisoner(this is up to the captors). If the captor cannot do this in 72 hours, the character is to be believed to have escaped and is back in the game.

The time spent being captured should be entirely up to the Victim OOCly, if they want to be stuck in a Cave or Cell for 1 month, that's on them.

Just remove the limitations. Once a player is uncomfortable, that's when it's a rulebreak, you shouldn't be putting wedges between what people do, just because you're scared it begins to border on molestation and thus gets you some inboxes. Players are not inert, they can decide when they are not happy.

Appraise System Limitations
Until further notice, the Appraise mechanic listed in game cannot be used to determine the race of a PC that is fully masked or wearing a helmet. It does not comply with the current set of rules that we have listed on the forums.

Better wording, this makes no sense to me currently as it's jargon filled. I get what it's referring too but it took ages for me to read it, namely because there's a contradiction without that said contradiction labelled.

Label your examples, please.

Alignment detection
Smite Evil is not to be used as a substitute to Detect Evil in non combat situations in order to detect alignment. It is a breach of the Paladin Code to strike someone to slay them when there is uncertainty as to whether death is deserved. The feedback given in the combat log should not be used to determine whether a PC is evil or not. This extends to any spells that have their effects only resolve on a certain alignment.

This should just be removed, this is bordering stupidity. Of course if you smite an evil thing and you know it works, you know it's Evil.

Generally speaking, the huge hennyyyy issue with this server is the lack of ability to vett people at the door.

Removing a bunch of spells that make things safer for the Realm has led to a disarray of people being retributive and paranoid as ICs/OOCs, where they cannot vett people are good, bad or neutral, law, chaos or true.

Besides, Sense Motive can just infer the super bad things that Alignment never covered, so why even bother to make exceptions and delete the content?
Sense motive already ruins a lot of things that the Staff seem to believe is under lame Know Alignment parlour tricks.

Either limit Know Alignment to specific Temple NPCs or otherwise, or make it universally usable. People will know you're Evil without the spell, the spell makes sure you don't walk into the Ilmateri Temple as a Bhaal Follower of true Evil and start slitting the necks of the injured, it generates suspicion and anyone found using it for more are clearly overstepping boundaries on how things operate.

It's meant to signal a precautionary rather than something any IC can act on. At best, it can be reworked to just "Tell you the person has selfish tendencies" and leave it at that.

Other thing is, leaving it in, you give a wide and acceptable idea for people to learn what the Alignment System means by expanding upon and limiting the system as you need. Removal of content is never the answer, innovate and believe, is just a sure-fire way to enjoy the game at large.

Slavery
Slavery is not allowed among PCs. This has in the past led to RP that is outside the PG-13 rating of the server and as such has been banned.

Red Thayans and the Underdark being core examples of this, it doesn't matter if you call it an Indentured Servant or not, everyone knows it's Slave or believes it's a Slave and will always RP it is a Slave, NPC or not.

Sheets come with lore and nobody can remove the lore just to satisfy a poorly misguided ruling.

As far as anything goes, what this rule ACTUALLY intends to mean, should just be better clarified without making things a headache for everyone.

Don't be facetious on what this rule is banning, just ban that content and remove the issue of people who will obviously always own unwilling or will-full self-contained Slaves.

Ultimately, what two people do with each other, is what two people do and that's on them, nobody else has the right to judge their private content or seek to leak it for a witch hunt.

Screenshots sent to the DM Team clearly showing a PC emoting hostility, or initiating PvP, in sight of NPC guards (Baldur's Gate, the Friendly Arm Inn, or any map with an NPC guard/watchman) may result in a hanging and/or perma-strike against the PC. The only exception is when a DM is supervising the conflict, and with guild NPCs in a guildhall (see RP Outs, PvP Consent, and Toggling Hostile).

I still think this should be clarified that minor slap fighting or shoving about is considered an appropriate action, at which point Guards can break it up as an assumed action and the two people must then exit the land at which they had the fight, as per the rules.

Barring all and capable ways of people to interact with the world because "The Ghosts will get you" is anti-persistent immersion.

If 1 DM cannot be found to be actively using the server specifically for guard duty, then you need to alter the rules and give leeway for players, instead of making everyone an agony aunt to pointless complaints fielded.

I have truly only ever seen 1 Guard RP in my entire year, so I have no idea why rules are intended to remove the effort warranted as a volunteer.

I'd be pretty chuffed to RP a Guard and break up a fight without drawing blade on anyone ever. It's RP, RP is fun.

Refrain from discussing politics and religion on the forums.

Clarification: No discussing Non-WoTC Religion and Politics. This rule isn't that self-explanatory as one might think.

Do not share or disclose other people's personal/private information without their consent, either through public forums or private messages.
Details such as real names or e-mail addresses can be used by those with ill intent for malicious purposes. More information can be found here: User Agreement.

Should include no posting up people's IRL Photos they kindly posted to this Forum, seen this one a few times and I loathe every second someone has done it.

Since it was publicly posted, it's not actually a rule breech, so it should be included.


New Rule Suggestion;

When buying a Tavern or otherwise Land for temporary Space, you do not own it beyond the day you paid for it and nor do you own or permit any NPC actions within the residency or Field of space.


With that,

I bit y'all adios.

[Hoihe]

Just remove the limitations. Once a player is uncomfortable, that's when it's a rulebreak, you shouldn't be putting wedges between what people do, just because you're scared it begins to border on molestation and thus gets you some inboxes. Players are not inert, they can decide when they are not happy.

People will publicly shame and put pressure on captured people making it difficult to say "You're uncomfortable" without being branded a "bad RPer." This rule protects people from being pressured into RP they're not comfortable with.

Red Thayans and the Underdark being core examples of this, it doesn't matter if you call it an Indentured Servant or not, everyone knows it's Slave or believes it's a Slave and will always RP it is a Slave, NPC or not.

Sheets come with lore and nobody can remove the lore just to satisfy a poorly misguided ruling.

As far as anything goes, what this rule ACTUALLY intends to mean, should just be better clarified without making things a headache for everyone.

Don't be facetious on what this rule is banning, just ban that content and remove the issue of people who will obviously always own unwilling or will-full self-contained Slaves.

Ultimately, what two people do with each other, is what two people do and that's on them, nobody else has the right to judge their private content or seek to leak it for a witch hunt.

If slavery is ever introduced to the server, expect edgy drow to constantly harrass people, especially elves, and try to force them to be slaves.

All the while pushing "if you're a real RPer, you roll with the consequences."

An NWN1 server and a persistent SS13 have slavery. They have said issue of "good RPers roll with punches" forcing people into stuff they're not one bit comfortably with at fear of being shittalked.

BG itself has people who will besmirch your honour and quality of roleplay if you oppose their edgy bollocks. I've had one of them outright come out and admit it on the forums.

which leads to a number of Players being treated poorly and sabotaged over pointless socialite RP as a consequence.

What do you call socialite RP?

No RP is ever pointless. If it allows the player to immerse themselves better in their character, it's not pointless. If I've had people to do it with, and the mechanics to make it somewhat interesting (Even if only on the level of Baystation 12/Polaris 13 mechanics, or even just Arelith crafting), I'd try and RP as granular details of my character's life as good taste and rules would permit.

[Cinnamon]

And those people should be reported because they're bullies.





Slavery has and is introduced to the server on a somewhat weekly but consistent basis. Either person people believe what they want or because the Red Wizards are eggy bread, or something, idk, I can't insult my Thayan Overlords.

Again peer pressure is bullying and manipulation, anyone who does this should be reprimanded and punished accordingly.

I would never say someone is trash for not wanting to put up with my serious dedication to upholding hardcore++ tendencies, nor is it their fault if I push their boundaries. Infact, I have a lot of issues because people refuse to speak up and then slander me elsewhere, suggesting I flashed my rule breaking codpieces or something absolutely insane that definitely didn't happen.

Eh, still the same, bersmirch or not, they are in the wrong and should be reprimanded, I can't stress it enooooough. Anyone whose that much of a trollop should go RP with a wall and learn how pointless life can be when they are the only one making the system.





It's objectively pointless, as it goes nowhere and you even bluntly pointed out why it's bad mere moments prior.

There should be rules if you're going to slander a character, you have to actually field your complaint to the proper authorities instead of be a drama drinking machine. It makes no sense for Adventurer's to laze about complaining how yadda yadda someone is when they have the field expertise to be active or the esteem to be listened too. It's smear campaigning for sake of with no interest to actually RP with the accused, which is against the Medium RP rule above.

As well as the rule "If you dont like someone, DONT INTERACT". This means, don't spend all your time talking the good smack, there's no point to it.

[Steve]

If you have this many issues with the BGTSCC Server, perhaps you should consider gaming somewhere else?

I mean this in the most positive way, that you may alleviate your frustrations.

[Cinnamon]

Naw just going over the rules for once.

Ultimately don't care, truthfully. Just expressing how I felt when I read them, based on my time here and the experiences of being a hovering Drone inside the server doing god knows what strange snowflake concepts.

No skin off my teeth, though.

[Hoihe]

And those people should be reported because they're bullies.

Can't always report if you're a new player who doesn't know server culture, or if the person in question is a DM.

We've had a DM before try and force mutilation on multiple people while being highly hostile and dismissive towards protests.

I would never say someone is trash for not wanting to put up with my serious dedication to upholding hardcore++ tendencies, nor is it their fault if I push their boundaries. Infact, I have a lot of issues because people refuse to speak up and then slander me elsewhere, suggesting I flashed my rule breaking codpieces or something absolutely insane that definitely didn't happen.



It's objectively pointless, as it goes nowhere and you even bluntly pointed out why it's bad mere moments prior.

You and I have very different opinions on "hardcore."

For me, Hardcore is to immerse oneself within one's character as much as possible and experience life through them as much as the mechanics and server permits.

What you call "pointless and useless" is how life is usually lived. Personally, I find characters who plot/intrigue/adventure/campaign all the time without living their daily moments on screen to be difficult to connect with. Some of my best RP was retiring after a patrol and doing so called "socialite RP" to strengthen bonds and explore the relevant emotions while making native snacks to share with each other the characters' childhood.

I consider calling such RP "pointless" or "useless" to be similar to the idea of people calling RP that doesn't carry permarisk/mutilation/slavery/whatever as useless/immersive/bad


My own take on server rules is to take the rules concerning slavery and expand them to offer protection against other character-killing/ruining interactions.

[Cinnamon]

Okay.






Yeah, no, you're stretching the goalpost. I have no issue with socialite RP or gathering to talk about conflicts of interest.

I specifically and clearly defined it is harassment to continually talk poorly about a character to the point of them either leaving or dying as a result of the petty conversations, with no involvement or interaction with the character itself.

That is not everyday life or occurrence in the realm.

[Bobthehero]

My own take on server rules is to take the rules concerning slavery and expand them to offer protection against other character-killing/ruining interactions.

Ew, no, you can already refuse consequences as is, there is no point to restrict evil acts brought upon other PC's further with rules.

[Hoihe]

Okay.






Yeah, no, you're stretching the goalpost. I have no issue with socialite RP or gathering to talk about conflicts of interest.

I specifically and clearly defined it is harassment to continually talk poorly about a character to the point of them either leaving or dying as a result of the petty conversations, with no involvement or interaction with the character itself.

That is not everyday life or occurrence in the realm.

Shouldn't be referred to as socialite RP then.

Should either explicitly define the terminology used, or use language that doesn't have unintended meanings.

Per Cambridge dictionary, a socialite is an upper-class individual who makes it a point to engage in social events/gatherings.

My own take on server rules is to take the rules concerning slavery and expand them to offer protection against other character-killing/ruining interactions.

Ew, no, you can already refuse consequences as is, there is no point to restrict evil acts brought upon other PC's further with rules.

Unless it's explicitly defined, there's ways to pressure players into doing those things through "Good RPers roll with the punches"

And if they don't roll, proceed to go onto discord to complain that "I beheaded someone but they came back in half a week even though I burned their body!"

[Cinnamon]

Okay.






Yeah, no, you're stretching the goalpost. I have no issue with socialite RP or gathering to talk about conflicts of interest.

I specifically and clearly defined it is harassment to continually talk poorly about a character to the point of them either leaving or dying as a result of the petty conversations, with no involvement or interaction with the character itself.

That is not everyday life or occurrence in the realm.

Shouldn't be referred to as socialite RP then.

Should either explicitly define the terminology used, or use language that doesn't have unintended meanings.

Per Cambridge dictionary, a socialite is an upper-class individual who makes it a point to engage in social events/gatherings.

My own take on server rules is to take the rules concerning slavery and expand them to offer protection against other character-killing/ruining interactions.

Ew, no, you can already refuse consequences as is, there is no point to restrict evil acts brought upon other PC's further with rules.

Unless it's explicitly defined, there's ways to pressure players into doing those things through "Good RPers roll with the punches"

And if they don't roll, proceed to go onto discord to complain that "I beheaded someone but they came back in half a week even though I burned their body!"

My usage of Socialise is not incorrect, your misunderstanding of what I am talking about, despite it's clear cut view, is the issue.

[Hoihe]

Okay.






Yeah, no, you're stretching the goalpost. I have no issue with socialite RP or gathering to talk about conflicts of interest.

I specifically and clearly defined it is harassment to continually talk poorly about a character to the point of them either leaving or dying as a result of the petty conversations, with no involvement or interaction with the character itself.

That is not everyday life or occurrence in the realm.

Shouldn't be referred to as socialite RP then.

Should either explicitly define the terminology used, or use language that doesn't have unintended meanings.

Per Cambridge dictionary, a socialite is an upper-class individual who makes it a point to engage in social events/gatherings.

Ew, no, you can already refuse consequences as is, there is no point to restrict evil acts brought upon other PC's further with rules.

Unless it's explicitly defined, there's ways to pressure players into doing those things through "Good RPers roll with the punches"

And if they don't roll, proceed to go onto discord to complain that "I beheaded someone but they came back in half a week even though I burned their body!"

My usage of Socialise is not incorrect, your misunderstanding of what I am talking about, despite it's clear cut view, is the issue.

Has nothing to do with bullying, gossipping.

It simply refers to people who on our server would frequent high-class taverns to hang out in.

[Cinnamon]

Shouldn't be referred to as socialite RP then.

Should either explicitly define the terminology used, or use language that doesn't have unintended meanings.

Per Cambridge dictionary, a socialite is an upper-class individual who makes it a point to engage in social events/gatherings.




Unless it's explicitly defined, there's ways to pressure players into doing those things through "Good RPers roll with the punches"

And if they don't roll, proceed to go onto discord to complain that "I beheaded someone but they came back in half a week even though I burned their body!"

My usage of Socialise is not incorrect, your misunderstanding of what I am talking about, despite it's clear cut view, is the issue.

Has nothing to do with bullying, gossipping.

It simply refers to people who on our server would frequent high-class taverns to hang out in.

Again, it is not incorrect for me to use it here. I am unsure why you are arguing a title of a person prevents them from bullying.

Especially when it is about a title that infers one is likely to be snobby and lookdown upon their lower classmen in this setting.

Which is bullying.

[Bobthehero]

Unless it's explicitly defined, there's ways to pressure players into doing those things through "Good RPers roll with the punches"

And if they don't roll, proceed to go onto discord to complain that "I beheaded someone but they came back in half a week even though I burned their body!"

Not always, I inflicted some wounds (Well had my PC convince theirs that such would be in their favor, but details) with the full expectation of them popping back later with no proof of such injuries (the player rolled with it). Just because you had one awful experience doesn't mean it's the norm.

[Rad-Icarus]

I think you also need to keep in mind that this server has been around forever and a bunch of the people on it have been playing in the same way for many years now. They have seen hundreds of people come and go and they have distilled their circles down to incredibly tight cliques or groups that may or may not ever accept outsiders or their ideas, even after those "outsiders" have been here for years themselves.

I don't think that's going to change.
You may not think that's reasonable, but that's probably how it's going to be.

I'd focus on finding people more in-tune with your play style, and building your own circle and applying your own standards. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to change how things are, but maybe taking it one issue at a time and scaling back expectations.

[Cinnamon]

I think you also need to keep in mind that this server has been around forever and a bunch of the people on it have been playing in the same way for many years now. They have seen hundreds of people come and go and they have distilled their circles down to incredibly tight cliques or groups that may or may not ever accept outsiders or their ideas, even after those "outsiders" have been here for years themselves.

I don't think that's going to change.
You may not think that's reasonable, but that's probably how it's going to be.

I'd focus on finding people more in-tune with your play style, and building your own circle and applying your own standards. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to change how things are, but maybe taking it one issue at a time and scaling back expectations.

Joining the crowd and making my own echo chamber is not something I deem to be the way forward.

Whilst I understand the argument, it's simply not within my spirit to do as such.

I have my spaces and "my people", but I'm not going to warp my mental to get along with them for sake of having them, ultimately I RP characters and they are not intended to be heralded or hated on purpose, just me enjoying the books as they came with curiousities I find delectable to entertain for months at a time.