Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:28 am

Antras89 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:19 am

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:17 am

Because 15 is our narrative model - this is the max level of challenges we tend to face on a storytelling level. DnD is designed with ever-increasing narrative challenges as you gain levels. 15-20 is worldwide stories. 10-15 is kingdom/national. 5-10 is local region. 1-5 is local village/town. On BG, we cap out at kingdom/nation-level stories, thus level 15 cap.

So, why to not add additional narrative option for "Above" 15 cap? we have tools, we can do location (ofc take some time) for other planes and in same time, use Epick book - so in this case events outside of low areas.

We're not interested in telling epic level or planar stories. For players who want that, the Planescape server is available.

Frankly, if it was up to me, I'd go with E6 rules (level 6 cap with extra feat progression). But it's not up to me. 15 is about the highest I can stomach, personally. By that point the types of mobs you're facing are already getting ridiculous.

In any case, for level 20 cap, there's already proposal 2. Proposal 2 just has 20 as a soft cap with the option for additional, limited progression.

I just really do not understand what makes hard cap at 20 so much worse than soft cap at 20 with further epic scaling that you propose. Hard cap at 20 Is bigger limit than 20 with further bonuses that you outlined and these 5 levels would just allow players to enjoy full benefit of a class.

Edit: You could also turn off combat gained xps and static quests xps on level 15 thus giving xps only via role play mechanic.

In addition RCring if allowed to remake pcs should bring PCs only up to 10th lvl in case lvl cap 20 and 5 levels in case of 15.

I say the 4 APR proposal (( AKA Number 3 )) it's the less heavily impactful , but also probably the easier to implement , and still helps keeping the combat less swingy , i would vote for that.

Cap on 4 APR would have to make an exception for the obvious things like monk levels etc.

It's a cap on attacks from BAB, not from other sources, ofc.

I would be all for 1 or 2, but only if the 3 by 20 rule is trash-binned forevermore.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:36 am It's a cap on attacks from BAB, not from other sources, ofc.

I may be confusing nwn2 and nwn1 mechanics, but, at least in nwn1, monk has its own bab progression table, which is different from everyone else's. This means that, if you multiclass, say, fighter and monk, you will have like 5 APR based on BAB alone by level 20. Only then is flurry added. I think this may not be the way things work in nwn2, but, if it is, then that should be made an exception.

This late in the history of the server, I have no interest in 1 or 2. If it was a new server, it would have been a different matter, but right now, I have absolutely no interest in 1 or 2.

Just do a vault wipe when the new way is implemented and there will be no problem.

For now a simple question or suggestion: Can we not just stretch out the progression made and still reach lvl30 but effectively remain a lvl20 character? Or even 15 although I like the sound of lvl20. lvl15 sounds somewhat stuck in the middle.
So progression is simply slowed down but we still can go on that journey ALL the way up to lvl30? lvl15 somehow sounds unfinished to me.

In a way just give out half the skillpoints, half the hp (if that's possible) half everthing with each level..
Is anything like that maybe a good idea perhaps?

Because I am torn. I love to get to 30, I love that it takes a long time unless you risk braindamage and go for the grind over days.
On the other hand I also really like and actually prefer the idea of keeping things simple and low on the item and magic and skill side. Which makes me want the lvl15 proposal.

If I had to make a vote, I think I'd go for option 2

Which of the suggested options is the best to create more maps and make the world even bigger? @Rhi (best as in the least amount of extra work and lowest chance to screw up balance)

DM Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:44 am This late in the history of the server, I have no interest in 1 or 2. If it was a new server, it would have been a different matter, but right now, I have absolutely no interest in 1 or 2.

Exactly. I've found Ravenloft's variant of a level 20 cap perfectly palatable, but as far as I know, Ravenloft has always been like that (... more or less). New servers can get away with this sort of change. Established servers, not so much.

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:47 am Just do a vault wipe when the new way is implemented and there will be no problem.

Nooo, no problem at all.

I have always maintained, and still do now, that a blanket vault wipe is the single most effective way of killing the server. Whatever goodwill is obtained by leveling the playing field, fixing fundamental balance issues, or whatever you want to justify it with, is massively outweighed by the resentment felt when you go up to people and say "nope, all these stories are over now, come up with something new". NWN doesn't have enough players left for us to replace the people that leave in the aftermath of a vault wipe. (This would almost certainly include myself, by the way. I'd probably enjoy the server if I ever got over it, but who knows how long that could take? It's not like I can't find other things to do with my time.)

Freckles wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:57 am For now a simple question or suggestion: Can we not just stretch out the progression made and still reach lvl30 but effectively remain a lvl20 character? Or even 15 although I like the sound of lvl20. lvl15 sounds somewhat stuck in the middle.
So progression is simply slowed down but we still can go on that journey ALL the way up to lvl30? lvl15 somehow sounds unfinished to me.

In a way just give out half the skillpoints, half the hp (if that's possible) half everthing with each level..
Is anything like that maybe a good idea perhaps?

Because I am torn. I love to get to 30, I love that it takes a long time unless you risk braindamage and go for the grind over days.
I really like the idea of keeping things simple and low on the item and magic and skill side. Which makes me want the lvl15 proposal.

If I had to make a vote, I think I'd go for option 2

Which of the suggested options is the best to create more maps and make the world even bigger? @Rhi

Heh, I actually proposed something like that in my first post. Perhaps not as harsh (there are some stats whose progression doesn't need to be halved, IMO), but something along those lines seems like a decent compromise.

nope, all these stories are over now, come up with something new

This is not what a vault wipe would be. Just saying.
You're wiping the vault, not the server history and characters.

Edit:
Sometimes you gotta wipe and rebuild to make things work. Look at final fantasy 14, they basically remade the game and came back as one of the strongest MMOs around. All it takes is the will to do it.

Would love 1, though any of these changes to the server are better than staying the same.

Epic levels to me have always been a jarring point where I tend to lose interest, the PvE is less fun because other players have hyper-optimized grind builds were even going with a character that can clear the content normally winds with you just walking through the dungeon while everything ahead explodes (everything being balanced against these players leads to dungeons being a total slog otherwise). PvP becomes either a case of your character being one of the optimized elite or expecting to be blown up the moment someone toggles hostile against you. Neither is particularly fun for me.

More or less otherwise with Rhifox, level 15 is about as high a level as I like it, 10-15 you generally only start to see the gross imbalance that is inherent to DnD. By 20 it's on full display and epic just exacerbates these gaps further. Seeing mention of rebalancing classes would definitely be good with this in mind. Sorc/SpiritShaman/FlavoredSoul lose an entire spell level over wizard/druid/cleric for example. (While FS could certainly stand to be taken down a peg, sorc and SS are hardly more powerful than their alternatives.)

I'm also fine with players losing access to the highest level spells (9th and epic) as it leaves more room for magic like this to regain its narrative power rather than just being spells that are a part of a standard character's rotation.

But yeah, personally I am totally fine with any of Rhifox's listed changes, but #1 is my preference. (Also unrelated love E6/E8, if you ever decide to make that server Rhifox I am there.)

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:00 am
I have always maintained, and still do now, that a blanket vault wipe is the single most effective way of killing the server. Whatever goodwill is obtained by leveling the playing field, fixing fundamental balance issues, or whatever you want to justify it with, is massively outweighed by the resentment felt when you go up to people and say "nope, all these stories are over now, come up with something new". NWN doesn't have enough players left for us to replace the people that leave in the aftermath of a vault wipe. (This would almost certainly include myself, by the way. I'd probably enjoy the server if I ever got over it, but who knows how long that could take? It's not like I can't find other things to do with my time.)

Even if we did a wipe, it'd be a mechanical one only. Players could still play the same character.

Also quite thing what i do not understand is, if you do not like play character with 15 lvl-s above or more, you can always turn off xp gained, what you have options at now on server. But forcing other people to play lets say with this limit, when most of them do not like this, its not ok at all, especiality they have option at now, same as players who do not like have h. lvls. its like hm.. "i do not like 30 lvl, like 15 lvl! so rest also need to!" xD

Sorry for grammar i hope its understable what i write?

If any of these changes is made, i would like to also see a conencted change to the magical items.

Definately no item that provides bonus to the abilities.