Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Rask wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:00 am RIP my sorc, if im reading this right im going to lose 6AC from the build due to loss of ICE?, and all the bigby's spells will be significantly less useful. Oh well. Good thing I dont play them as a high combat character I guess. though I could be reading things wrong entirely.

Huge buff for Duelist though, that makes that class way more compelling now. This will probably be better for my MAA overall as well, but it seems like I will end up with a lot of wasted feats across my characters and will need to RCR.

You gain 1 AC - 5 from FD and 5 from CE for a total of 10 AC and -9 AB.

You gain 1 feat which can be used elsewhere or removing a multiclass that enables taking tumble as a class skill.

You gain 6 skill points as you effectively only need 25 tumble ranks to gain the max use of FD.

Your only nerf is Bigby's and that is pvp specific and you would essentially not ever run around with that buff constantly (freedom of movement), unless you are metaing, incredibly paranoid as a character or intenting to abuse/exploit that fact against known arcane spellcasters.

All in all, any change of this magnitude will 1000000% cause players to adapt and of course some players who have invested years/months into characters will be affected greatly.

In my own opinion, the changes are directly causing everyone to "work" in their sparetime since they are required to change how they play, what they have built over a period of time, invested great amounts of time, fun and effort into. That will always cause some friction. Will you stop playing with these changes? That would be question really. I don't think you will, so give opinions and feedback and utimately, the team is trying to make the server better, be more roleplay friendly and less of a number crunching setup, as I would definately think it is now. That seems to be a change for the better, would you say so?

builds that have already taken 30 tumble and every ac feat up and thru ce are going to lose 1 ab and 1 ac, as there are no ac feats left to take that do not seriously gimp you by taking 3 of your attacks per round

my main character has already lost 4 ac due to mechanical and gear changes

5 ac is a lot of lost ac, and i dont get the feeling the mob ab nerf will be equal to it

Blame The Rogue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:04 am builds that have already taken every ac feat up and thru ce are going to lose 1 ab and 1 ac, as there are no ac feats left to take

I would like to fix Epic Prowess and Armor Skin to actually be stackable like they're supposed to be, rather than one and done. That'd help a bit.

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:02 am

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:49 pmAm I misreading something or is this better in PnP than in the new system, despite the new system claiming harmony with PnP? You don't need to be ultra epic to enjoy the full benefits.

You are misreading, yes. The TD bonus has been moved from 5 Tumble to 5 Parry, but that image otherwise corresponds to the first buff thresholds in Rhi's system. You get +3 instead of +2 with 5 Tumble and FD, and you get +6 instead of +4 with 5 Parry and TD.

So two different skills enable higher AC from FD now? That's a little confusing and counterintuitive, and it doesn't work that way in PnP, since the parry skill doesn't exist there.

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:25 am

DaloLorn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:02 am

cosmic ray wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:49 pmAm I misreading something or is this better in PnP than in the new system, despite the new system claiming harmony with PnP? You don't need to be ultra epic to enjoy the full benefits.

You are misreading, yes. The TD bonus has been moved from 5 Tumble to 5 Parry, but that image otherwise corresponds to the first buff thresholds in Rhi's system. You get +3 instead of +2 with 5 Tumble and FD, and you get +6 instead of +4 with 5 Parry and TD.

So two different skills enable higher AC from FD now? That's a little confusing and counterintuitive, and it doesn't work that way in PnP, since the parry skill doesn't exist there.

No, FD (Fighting Defensively) only works off of Tumble.

Total Defense works off of Parry, but that's because turning off the autoattack function isn't possible to script, so have to piggyback off of Parry (also, Parry is often derided as a weak, broken move, so increasing its role as 'the defense skill' is a nice boost, I think).

Rhifox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:05 am
I would like to fix Epic Prowess and Armor Skin to actually be stackable like they're supposed to be, rather than one and done. That'd help a bit.

To be fair, that would a be good solution, but only for feat heavy builds. I would honestly feel like this would be awesome for fighters! Finally a buff to the average joe of d&d!

If I have an offensive melee build, which already has low (minimum for survival) AC yet, how can he handle the 3AC loss from tumble without further gimping himself and still stay offensive?

Theodore01 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:39 am If I have an offensive melee build, which already has low (minimum for survival) AC yet, how can he handle the 3AC loss from tumble without further gimping himself and still stay offensive?

If you are offensive(having high AB), you would easily gain 10 AC, but retain an average chance of hitting stuff.

It is a choice to fight defensively and if you would be an offensive powerhouse, you have already set yourself up to be a glass cannon. 3 AC will not be your issue at that point.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:05 am

Blame The Rogue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:04 am builds that have already taken every ac feat up and thru ce are going to lose 1 ab and 1 ac, as there are no ac feats left to take

I would like to fix Epic Prowess and Armor Skin to actually be stackable like they're supposed to be, rather than one and done. That'd help a bit.

Assuming one has any room to take more feats, that is. Some builds simply do not have the luxury of replacing feats just for the sake of retaining AC.

The tricky thing about big sweeping changes like these are that they usually have a rather minimal effect on super optimized/power builds, but run the risk of further diminishing the playability of builds that are not optimized for tanking the entirety of server content. At the end of the day, you will still end up with a swath of characters who are pushing 60 - 70+ AC, and dishing out a beating, while niche classes and non optimized builds take the real brunt of the changes.

For example:


At 35 AC, I already get smacked around by big bad mobs, so naturally I would expect to get just as pummeled at 32 AC by them... which doesn't sound like that big of a deal, right? The thing is, feats like epic dodge will only save you so much, especially when the content has a 50 AB, because their follow up attacks are still in the 40's. And that's where a few AC can really save your ass. AFAICT, the net result of opting to "fight defensively", is a 4 AB penalty. So, basically I will continue to take a beating from those big mobs, with the option to whiff on more attacks ... plus I'll probably have to toggle the thing on when strolling through lower CR zones, just so weaker monsters don't take advantage of my newfound inability to tumble. Woo.

Unless I'm not reading correctly(and I may not be?)... in order for this character, whose preferred mode of dealing damage is attacking from flank, or out of stealth, to retain this whopping 35 unbuffed AC(or 43'ish? buffed), I will need to either A. "fight defensively" and lose 4 AB in the process, or B.... err, do I have another option other than to reroll, adjust skills, and swap in feats that will most certainly result in a lesser offensive capability, as well as potentially reduce the functionality of my niche abilities and skills? I really hope there's a third option here, because options A and B are not very inspiring.

Snarfy

All builds with ICE, is getting 1 more feat.

I going to reiterate the point that the worst hit builds will be those that have Tumble 30, and do not use CE/ICE or Parry, currently.

These builds are also unlikely to use Fighting Defensively nor the new CE (up to -5/+5), for numerous reasons, and we can just say because they weren’t designed too.

What is not really being expressed here is what can then o Lu be assumed is the desire to make those builds that gain defensively ALSO suffer offensively. Which seemed to all stem from the fact of a bugged CE/ICE with Warlock RTAs.

Steve wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:50 amWhat is not really being expressed here is what can then o Lu be assumed is the desire to make those builds that gain defensively ALSO suffer offensively. Which seemed to all stem from the fact of a bugged CE/ICE with Warlock RTAs.

Trust me, if I was doing what I actually wanted to do, it'd be to make CE disable spellcasting completely. This is not some warlock-inspired change, as CE is a problem on all spellcasters. The CE changes fixing touch attacks is a bonus, not the motivation.

If the builds you’re talking about have HiPS they should be fine simply by not standing around to melee not already engaged opponents after their initial attack.

Rhifox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:13 pm

Steve wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:50 amWhat is not really being expressed here is what can then o Lu be assumed is the desire to make those builds that gain defensively ALSO suffer offensively. Which seemed to all stem from the fact of a bugged CE/ICE with Warlock RTAs.

Trust me, if I was doing what I actually wanted to do, it'd be to make CE disable spellcasting completely. This is not some warlock-inspired change, as CE is a problem on all spellcasters. The CE changes fixing touch attacks is a bonus, not the motivation.

NERF ALL SPELLCASTERS!!

Rhifox wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:13 pm

Steve wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:50 amWhat is not really being expressed here is what can then o Lu be assumed is the desire to make those builds that gain defensively ALSO suffer offensively. Which seemed to all stem from the fact of a bugged CE/ICE with Warlock RTAs.

Trust me, if I was doing what I actually wanted to do, it'd be to make CE disable spellcasting completely. This is not some warlock-inspired change, as CE is a problem on all spellcasters. The CE changes fixing touch attacks is a bonus, not the motivation.

But also: where in PnP does it state that CE does disable spell casting?