Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2022)

[Steve]

Hello BG!

We're finally looking at integrating some of tfunke's BG updates in a coming patch. For now this will just be the eastern farmlands, with interior zones coming at a later date.

An IC note about this update: This should not be seen as a huge IC change, as canonically Baldur's Gate already had an outer city. However, it can be seen as a newly refurbished outer city -- much of this area can be seen as having been destroyed during the undead war, so only now, several years since that conflict, can we say it's been fully rebuilt. Of course, some things are moved around a bit, things are in a few different locations and so on, so a bit of handwaving is going to be necessary to explain that.

Aside from tfunke's design, this map will also include my lighting and persistent weather system. No more 5-minute showers at the campfire, now it's either raining that reset (or snowing), or it's clear. Nights are dark, but this is a well-lighted area so it'll be more atmospheric than difficult to maneuver. Still, torches are recommended. I'll likely be implementing both of these systems on the existing interior BG maps as well as a stop-gap until those maps get their updates.

Of course, the big thanks for this update goes to tfunke, who was the one that originally designed this map.

Some considerations:

- The graveyard quest giver is now in the graveyard again, rather than the farmlands/outer city.
- The wand recharger is now in Sorcerous Sundries, rather than the farmlands/outer city.
- Lanterns can be found at Blunt's now, in crates (similar to the torch barrel at Soubar) to hopefully allow them to actually work. Taking a lantern will incur a charge (he's not going to give them out for free, afterall).
- There may be some kinks to work out still, as this is a big new map. Please be diligent with reporting errors on the forums.

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Awesome! Thanks for pushing this ahead...and IG!

[Theodore01]

Nice, hope the storage NPC will still work after this update.

[Rhifox]

Nice, hope the storage NPC will still work after this update.

It should, as the map tag will stay the same.

[artemitavik]

OoooOOooooh...

AAaaaaaAAAAAah...

I dig it.

[mastajabba]

10/10 love where the Radiant Heart Charterhouse is looks a better defendable position

[Rhifox]

Update:

Some considerations:

- The graveyard quest giver is now in the graveyard again, rather than the farmlands/outer city.
- The wand recharger is now in Sorcerous Sundries, rather than the farmlands/outer city.
- Lanterns can be found at Blunt's now, in crates (similar to the torch barrel at Soubar) to hopefully allow them to actually work. Taking a lantern will incur a charge (he's not going to give them out for free, afterall).
- There may be some kinks to work out still, as this is a big new map. Please be diligent with reporting errors on the forums.

[Tsidkenu]

Will people who park their horses here have to move them, lest they become stuck in a tree or dwelling?

[Rhifox]

Will people who park their horses here have to move them, lest they become stuck in a tree or dwelling?

No, any stablemaster NPC can summon your horse to you (and since the split, any active horse will automatically teleport to you whenever crossing servers, making tying horses down something that largely isn't viable anymore).

[Steve]

Miscellaneous
- Northlander Hewing now uses only half-strength in non-playable-race polymorph forms.

Thank you for these updates. Lots of fun new options.

Regarding the NH, was there a particular reason behind this? As a player of unarmed shapes, the NH damage bonus at a cost of 2 attacks and 2 AC was a core part of my character’s build.

[Rhifox]

Regarding the NH, was there a particular reason behind this? As a player of unarmed shapes, the NH damage bonus at a cost of 2 attacks and 2 AC was a core part of my character’s build.

Northlander Hewing using full strength meant it had an exaggerated effect in polymorph forms, as those forms have greatly enhanced Strength scores. This meant that shapechanging characters were doing considerably more damage per round than these shapes were balanced for. This was considerably problematic on something like the cornugon, which is meant to have low damage to offset its high AC. Expose Weakness was given only half-power in polymorph forms because of many forms having high Dexterity scores, so this change is bringing Hewing in line with that.

Hewing is already a very powerful ability (to the point of being practically meta for most martial strength builds), its power in polymorph forms was considered beyond what we wanted from these forms as they provide a lot of power without anywhere near the investment in feats and equipment that true martial characters have. Plus, this should hopefully make Tenser's Transformation feel less marginalized compared to shapes.

Though Hewing was reduced in power, several unarmed forms now have higher baseline damage, which may balance out the loss a bit.

[Steve]

I see the reasoning.

Did you update the baselines for Shifter shapes as well, then? Are you considering to half NH bonus for Barbarian Rage as well?

If the Cornugon, for an example, was an outlier, why not just lower the Corn’s STR rather than universally nerf all other Shapes? One bad apple shouldn’t spoil the whole bunch, yes?

[Rhifox]

Just reporting some bugs here:

Fast Movement feats don't seem to work. May have to apply speed via a script instead.
Wolf On Hit Knockdown doesn't seem to work. Will probably just give it a Gui knockdown instead
Polymorph ape is showing up as a troll for some reason. Legendary ape and yeti work fine. Something I screwed up in the 2da I guess.

I see the reasoning.

Did you update the baselines for Shifter shapes as well, then? Are you considering to half NH bonus for Barbarian Rage as well?

If the Cornugon, for an example, was an outlier, why not just lower the Corn’s STR rather than universally nerf all other Shapes? One bad apple shouldn’t spoil the whole bunch, yes?

Cornugon was the biggest problematic shape but it was an issue with all of them.

As for Rage, I have no intention on touching that at this time as I can't speak for barbarian balance. That'd be something to ask Valefort or QC.

[Steve]

Cornugon was the biggest problematic shape but it was an issue with all of them.

It is, then, just an unfortunate outcome that Shifter shapes take a nerf hit, since changes to Shapechange shapes + balance has a wider effect than…anticipated?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Just reporting some bugs here:

Polymorph ape is showing up as a troll for some reason. Legendary ape and yeti work fine. Something I screwed up in the 2da I guess.

Legendary Ape did nothing for my druid. No visual change, no attribute changes. I tried it a few times, then I tried in another zone. Then I tried switching zones while "shifted". No change. When I zoned while "shifted", the game didn't think I was shifted at all after loading the new zone. Same with Legendary Snake and Horse. The other legendary shapes still worked as before. Silver Dragon seemed to work as intended.

I don't know that it makes any difference or not, but I was on server 1 on both sides of the transition (FAI to Lion's Way and vice versa). I ended up running out of wildshapes to do more testing.

Edited to add: I also downloaded server 2 and any updates there, and retried the shifting. Same result.

[Rhifox]

Legendary Ape did nothing for my druid. No visual change, no attribute changes. I tried it a few times, then I tried in another zone. Then I tried switching zones while "shifted". No change. When I zoned while "shifted", the game didn't think I was shifted at all after loading the new zone. Same with Legendary Snake and Horse. The other legendary shapes still worked as before. Silver Dragon seemed to work as intended.

Same reason for the ape. I missed the radials. This will be fixed after next reset.