Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

A lot of what is "unknown" in terms of A + B + C = actually working, can be "learned" by asking the Community about it beforehand in the Character Building section of the Forum.

The Wiki is community built and run, and thus we all need to make the effort to update it and keep it "living" in order to be helpful for everyone.

I would say no more than 10-15% of what is documented on the wiki or IG is incorrect. And with such a small percentage, I myself wouldn't call for a 100% RCR period of any regular time frame (as in, what the OP suggests).

I also know that it is possible that if you have made an honest attempt at a build, and the information you utilized was misleading or incorrect in that build, you can petition with the DMs/Admin for a 100% RCR token. I cannot say to what the yay/nay result will be on your petition, but I also know that the Staff isn't uncaring when it comes to being misled via more-or-less official information.

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:13 pm most builds will come online by 20, but you can't RCR back to 20 at 20. You actually get dumped down lower than you would if you RCR'd earlier when a major build issue might not be as apparent.

Level 20, RCR'd at 50%, is Level 14 1/2.

It really isn't that hard nor that much RL time to go from 14 to 20.

But again, the point is to Role-play...and Level/XP should really not be a factor at all in Role-play (since RP is about "playing your Sheet" as much as it is about anything).

But hey! Agree to disagree!

Steve wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:19 pm A lot of what is "unknown" in terms of A + B + C = actually working, can be "learned" by asking the Community about it beforehand in the Character Building section of the Forum.

This is true, hence why I thanked chad for his endless build knowledge, but there are plenty of edge cases where someone unfamiliar with the way aspects of the PW or general game mechanics might not even be aware of the correct question to ask in the first place.

As an example, one of the characters I built very early on when the JEGs build was still not updated involved a rogue/cleric/assassin/darkfire disciple combo because I thought I could death touch from stealth. On the wiki, it says it's only valid when a sneak attack would be valid. That it would break stealth didn't even cross my mind. Little did I know that because of the way various custom feats are implemented, they pretty much all break stealth. Would I have known to ask that until I used one of them or became more familiar with the PW? Nope. Was I punished for trying it out? Yep. Many a gnoll was smashed to paste along with my time and enjoyment reclaiming that one. All of that could've been avoided by providing a character test area. There doesn't even need to be RCR. There just needs to be a reliable way for people to verify their ideas will work before they invest a portion of their time and enjoyment.

Steve wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:22 pm

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:13 pm most builds will come online by 20, but you can't RCR back to 20 at 20. You actually get dumped down lower than you would if you RCR'd earlier when a major build issue might not be as apparent.

Level 20, RCR'd at 50%, is Level 14 1/2.

It really isn't that hard nor that much RL time to go from 14 to 20.

But again, the point is to Role-play...and Level/XP should really not be a factor at all in Role-play (since RP is about "playing your Sheet" as much as it is about anything).

But hey! Agree to disagree!

Having to run 14-20 again because your build was borked is not what I'd call conducive to good RP. It's conducive to mindless circle grinding though.

You'll have the information if you're playing with popular classes or builds, if not you're out of luck. My own experience when asking for stuff with features that don't work as intended, is you just get deleveled. If you're lucky, you can get that done pretty quickly. If not, you just stop your level progression until you find an available DM. Either way, it just doesn't matter if things don't work as expected if you have an undo button. As for the wiki, as I mentioned before, it's nice to update it as a community, we also don't have any way to fill out the information until we stumble upon it. I have a small log of stuff I want to put up on it, but it won't change that I'm either stuck with those on my character or take a XP hit and take a couple weeks to get it back.

Between the wiki, the players, the forum and discord you don't get answers to your questions about a particular mechanic ?

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:36 pm Was I punished for trying it out? Yep.

I just cannot see how one is "punished" when they are not required to do anything in the first place. As in, we all willfully play here, and we all take a chance with whatever approach we take to Building and gaming on BGTSCC.

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:36 pm Having to run 14-20 again because your build was borked is not what I'd call conducive to good RP. It's conducive to mindless circle grinding though.

Why does it have to be good or bad RP? Is only "good RP" when you get your way? Grinding is not the only way to Level, btw. Role-play is embodying a Character concept and "playing your sheet." That is something that happen regardless of Level. One can just as easily role-play that your Character suffered a terrible disease that sapped them of strength, experience and skill, and now they have to attempt to regain what they have lost, as a way to "good RP" the re-leveling process, just as one can "mindlessly" grind.

The most important point here is that it is YOUR CHOICE what you do...and thus no one could possibly be punishing you, except yourself! Peace!

When did making it possible to play the character you set out to play become the enemy?

MY big question is....why the rush to 30 in the first place? Why circle grind? We have an RP XP ticker...why not just play, RP, grind when the mood strikes you, interact with everyone else otherwise. You dont need to be level 30 in other to enjoy the server or its populace. Whats the rush?

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 pm When did making it possible to play the character you set out to play become the enemy?

This has nothing to do with free RCR's, and everything to do with the player behind the character making an concerted effort to learn and participate.

Blackbird wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:36 pmHaving to run 14-20 again because your build was borked is not what I'd call conducive to good RP.

Running 14 - 20 again should really be the least of your worries when speaking of things being conducive to good RP.

DM SummerBreeze wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:34 pm MY big question is....why the rush to 30 in the first place? Why circle grind? We have an RP XP ticker...why not just play, RP, grind when the mood strikes you, interact with everyone else otherwise. You dont need to be level 30 in other to enjoy the server or its populace. Whats the rush?

So much this. Well said new dm guy!

Man, you'd guys really hate the server I played on for ten years. No RCR, no muling, levels 1-20 PvE (anything above that was DM only xp), and no randomized gear at all.

Honestly, the fact that this server caters to the RP-lite at all with giving the ability to RCR flabbergasted me the first time I came here. But, in the words of DM Summerbreeze:

You don't need to be level 30 in other to enjoy the server or its populace

If your aim here is to RP-lite, then leveling over and over really isn't much of a chore, but the purpose of playing. If your purpose here is to RP, then it shouldn't matter how long it takes you to get to level 30, because RP is the purpose of playing.

Instead, it sounds as though people want to 'win' at RP by having the most numbers. More AC, better Spot, most damage, etc. by having the most optimized build possible at all times. Thus, easy RCR.

My own opinion is that you can't 'win' at roleplaying a character by having the best stats mechanically, but rather by roleplaying your character in the best way you are able. You do that by building relationships, interacting as your character would, and being immersed in your character while you're online. You do that, and by the fact that you do get RP XP here (something else that was only added to my old server after five or so years), you'll get to where you want to go eventually. Maybe that's not fast, but it's how you really win at playing a character.

Quite the discussion here, lol.

I've got two stories myself in which I show what could be a downside, and one that could show an advantage. Both are related to the rp side of a character in this.

Story one :
Briefly I tried another server and I've encountered there something that would be a concern after an rcr on BG. Albeit not as hard as on that other place, still...
On said server reaching 30 is out of the question. 10 is within reach and only the real veterans are 12th. Crazy huh? But I found out firsthand why that is. It took me days to figure out how to get from level 1 to level 2, and a couple of resets on quests too. Then,... when I finally hit 2nd level, which was important as I then got my first cleric level and I could initiate rp as my character was storywise set as an priest, something frustrating happened. A dm ran an invasion event in the middle of the city, where at that point only high level characters were present (vets). And well, me. My character died within 30 seconds, it was raised once, and then died again and I was sent to their death map. I lost so much xp that I dropped back to level 1 (yeah, that is possible there), and suddenly I was no cleric anymore. A bummer for rp. Though real diehards may like the challenge there.

But you see, I always like to actually have a character's feats and specialties to rp them. I will never rp a skill or talent a character may have that is connected to a feat or skill, until I have said feat or skill or class. For example, I'd never rp my tech-character having a gondsman until I have actually the techsmith level that gives me access to said companion. I won rp that my character can create bombs or elixirs or can use whatever skill until I actually got access build-wise.
Lol, I have even taken feats which mechanically (all crafting feats) dont mean anything on this server, but I taken them just to rp them and in case should a dm ever inquire if my character actually possesses such talent

The above are reasons why it's for me important to get back to certain (class) levels again, asap.

Story two :
On the other hand, one time I have used the hit of the xp penalty as a chance to change an existing character during an ic plot. Kitty used to be a warlock but due ic stuff, story, plot and help from other toons, she got rid of that pact. It left her behind weakened (which is what lvl 30 -> 20 represents), and she had to try and learn and trust on herself again (which was the slight change of the build, adding another class and the process of getting back to 30). This is perhaps where said rcr penalty can be used as a benefit.

But yeah, I dont have the time anymore I used to have, and like I said, the road from 20 to 30 feels like the longest.

PS: no, not all my characters have to be level 30 asap. In these 8-9 years I been here I still only own 2 level 30's on this server. I got maybe 2 around level 27, and most are in the range of 10-21. Only a few are there because of rcr reasons, lol.

RP is not just about campfire chatters but also about playstyles and adventures. Players should be allowed to fix their builds without feeling the punishment of doing so and feel satisfied about adventuring with their PC.

IMO the demand of a regular 100% RCR implementation is accentuated by the slow progression beyond L20. While there is no rush to L30, character progression, either from RP or leveling, does contribute to player satisfaction. I, for example, return to this server around 5 months ago after leaving for 4 years. Back then I have a L24 character. Eager to try some new stuff and fear for a broken build after an absence of 4 years, I was willing to RCR'd it despite the loss of 50% exp and RCR'd one more time to fix my build between now and then. Now, I am just L26 after 5 months. Like Blackbird points out, I feel that investing a long time in my character but resulting in such a little progression amounts to disrespecting players' time.

I am not saying that 100% RCR should be a monthly thing, but a yearly one sounds like a reasonable implementation that would make many, if not all, players happy.

How can something that is offered as a free tool, a gift, in whatever implementation, be considered “disrespecting player’s time?”

Is it also disrespecting player’s time that DMs do not stay online 24/7 to support player RP? Is it also disrespecting player’s time when a Dev doesn’t implement a new Feat or update an existing one to the players exact wishes?

Do you want a Server that is only full of epic level Characters? Do you want a Server filled with endgame Builds that can literally do nothing but campfire RP or rinse-repeat loot grinds, unless a DM gives attention? Do you want a Server where once a Player invests in a level 30 PC, they can infinitely make new Level 30 PCs, every month, or every year? That players once with a Level 30 no longer have to take any risks IG, can constantly “upgrade” to more powerful Feats, adjust the very innate nature of the Character on a whim because you’re given the regular ability to “wipe the Character Sheet clean?!?”

BGTSCC is a public, free to play Server. But it does have a single cost: real life time (investment). Without this “price,” what you get it of it wouldn’t have any value.

The current implementation of the RCR is a gift. All it takes is making a mental change in what you expect you are “owed,” and see what wonderful things you are given (do have at your disposal).

I feel easier RCR would exacerbate an already annoying issue I run into.

I find a character I haven't met before. I RP with them for a week or so and enjoy it.

Suddenly they don't show up at all anymore, and that player is now playing their 5th alt in a row.