Valefort wrote:Where is the problem in that ? If they don't know it's your summon it makes perfect sense, they want to kill the vampire, not the person who is standing next to it.
Obviously for the summoner it's an hostile act against him, but for the attacker it is not, change your point of view, he is attacking the summon.
Be quick and tell them it's yours, PvP route, RP out etc... or pretend.
I already said, they know it's yours.
The problem if you go way back is that it is a huge disadvantage for those who are evil pretending to be good.
They have no defence over the player utilising the rule system to gain information that would otherwise have gotten them into a fight and/or killed.
*sigh* I give up. macros are not the answer, here, nor do they address the problem.
Lady Morticia - Terror of the Nine Hells, First Keeper of the Unholy Secrets, Inflicter of Unbearable Pain, Most Revered Mistress of Animated Flesh and Scourge of the Hated Knife-ears (and Scarlett)
*shrugs* suit yourself, I just don't see why it's not an easy way to get over the RP out dilemma =)
Tamara - "I've seen colours you would never dream of" Neschera - "Logic can bring you from one step to the next, creativity can bring you from anywhere to everywhere"
testmon wrote:well at most answers above, thats my point. i mean i get it that most good alligned players feel entitelt to always get the villain but i think at some point you got to day "B" after "A". and the point is that the bad guy right now can do nothing to stop the goods.
s/he can wear a mask, but that just helps so much, first you still got to give the good guy frist strike if he wants to attack, if not, your bad. (or rather summoning a devil is pvp consent, an angel is not)
plus it basically means that now you got to always run around in disguise (and look when and where you change) what reduces your chances of interacting with others by a lot. i guess there is a reason why all the good RP-evils i know play loners who never interact with the majority of people.
again, the problem is that the good toon has all the options in the worl, while -by rule- those are taken from the evil one, thats why i admit i am a bit shocked by what ease people here treat it as "yeah but if i do not give away the name of the player when i describe him/her then i can't get all my friends to pvp him down" while the evil guy can do...nothing, nothing at all except run away. the server is extremely one sided here and i guess noone but the baddies care, as it is their/our loss.
Aelcar wrote:
RP out?
come again?
as said above, summoning something evil means you consent with all other players attacking you if they see you, no RP, no RP out. summoning an angel in the middle of 30 evil players means they have to give you the RP out.
now rules say that if they do not see you summoning that creature it is not pvp consent but i would not trust in that, i once was around with a vampire, bunch of "good guys" droped by, attacked me after one line of text.
the DM i got first for another reason lateron meant that i got my "RP out" because they did not came after me when i had to run.
(please notice here that i neither got an RP out before combat, nor that they intended to let me leave/survive if i hadn't run nor that the DM found it un-rule-ish that they attacked despite the vamp. being jst around me, not summoned in front of them.)
Their mistake. When my Paladin saw a warlock with a demon around (Hellfire summon), I ran in shielding her from her own summoning, screaming "die demon, you wont have her!". That was my way to say: unsummon or PvP? She played along and chose the first option. See? RP out...
Aelcar Lightbringer, Knight of the Merciful Sword: Disappeared after the victorious defense of the Gate against The Blight.
Olath M'elzar Valshar The Black, The Phantom Wizard: Retired Steward of the School of Necromancy and former Eye of the 7th Circle.
*the warlock subtly prepares an invocation to blast the paladin to smitherines in case he as much as lays a finger on the summon*
If Aelcars Paladins character still decides to press on, then PvP is at go.
Tamara - "I've seen colours you would never dream of" Neschera - "Logic can bring you from one step to the next, creativity can bring you from anywhere to everywhere"
dzidek1983 wrote:a true evil warlock would stab you in the back while you shielded him/her ending your pathetic do-goodie existance
I would OOCly shake his/her hand, it happened me more than once even in PnP (and I've done it myself as well). You lose your character, but you have a nice story. I'd do the bargain anytime.
Aelcar Lightbringer, Knight of the Merciful Sword: Disappeared after the victorious defense of the Gate against The Blight.
Olath M'elzar Valshar The Black, The Phantom Wizard: Retired Steward of the School of Necromancy and former Eye of the 7th Circle.
(As I say you I am simply meaning 'the Necromancer' that would be in any given situation. Not necessarily Krazy or any other person in particular. These will be used for examples only.)
There is still a need for an RP out to the summoner aside. The Undead is an illegal monstrosity. Either the summoner must give the RP out before attacking the one who killed the summon, or the one killing the summon must give an RP out to the summoner as there is no absolute way to tell it was summoned unless it was witnessed.
Who is to say the summoner must admit to summoning it at that point.
"Thank the gods sir! You saved me from that thing."
"But it didn't seem to be attacking you..."
"Because I was running! Thank you so very much!"
Act all doe eyed until the guy leaves, collect the pieces of the summon and try again in a safe spot.
~~
I'm not saying the goody goodie has to believe you, but without more proof that "it was following you..." They can't do much. Vampires do stalk prey after all... Zombies and Skeletons follow movement:
"Good Sir! [the wizard says in a quiet monotone] Make no sudden movements or it will attack. It has been following me for ages, and I dare not try to run for I cannot outrun it."
[the summon dies, wizard is safe... carry on]
~~
Just examples mind you. Viable ways to escape. If you are truly worried they are metagaming mechanics to find the summoner, keep things IC, and take Screen Shots. If it gets out of hand... Send a PM to the DM team as the rules dictate... Likewise if you feel the summoner is trying to escape justice... Take screens and send PMs.
Now, what follows here is simply my OOC interpretation of the IC laws... This is not a staff edict. It is simply what makes sense to me.
Note that the laws of the land do not state that Necromancy is a kill on sight offense. It is simply illegal to practice, and practitioners may be brought to Justice... This inherently means that unless the necromancer attacks... the most you can do is apprehend them and take them to the Fist, or to a Tyrran Justice.
Vigilantism is still circumventing the law... Mind you, a vigilante can claim the good guy and can say they killed the bad guy in self defense first... and the dead have to way of speaking against it, or remembering later... But I do believe that screen shots should be taken so that repeat offenders of this garner some alignment shift... that is just my opinion mind you... In any case... if a necromancer's summon is killed, and even if you catch them summoning it... It is consent to PVP, Not IC murder... Knock them out, bind them, turn them in... kill them... especially in front of the Flaming Fist or any truly lawful character, and your well meaning intentions net you a murder charge... YES I know most will not press the murder issue. And many will see killing a necromancer as drastic as killing a fly... Just a reminder to those who play their alignment. It is unlawful to play the Vigilante, Good to destroy evil... Lawful to destroy the summon, take the summoner to the law. In some cases even evil to justify your outlet for murder by killing a possible or even suspected necromancer, if you kill them in some torturous way. [shrug] more opinion, sorry.
When the rules are written that Spellcasting is consent to PVP, emoting the preparation of spells is definitely the RP out.
Also, by remaining non hostile and continuing to state one's innocence when accused is still technically taking the out. The one seeking to apprehend the Necromancer has no right to initiate PVP, and can then either take them in peacefully or leave them be. If the necromancer chooses not to be taken in peacefully, and does flee... By the rules, that is the out, unless they forcibly seek to escape (spell casting) which is then consent to PVP (a second and separate instance).
If you flee, by taking the RP out... yes... you the necromancer have been found out. Possibly, but you live to either plot the demise of those who would oust you, or work to cover your tracks, go into temporary hiding, work on an elaborate cover, alibi ect.
If you feel you are wronged at any point, for any reason, on any side of any PVP instance... The Staff can do nothing without Screen shots. Same goes for any rule breaking of any kind in game. Without screenshots there is little more than heresay.
EDIT: In fact, to the original post... That is the only change I would make to the rules... not just the PVP Rules, but the SERVER Rules and the IC stuff:
Screenshots are required for reports of bugs, misconduct, rule-breaking, meta-gaming and the like. Without them, such reports are null until they can be supplied on the instance(s) specified.
It would save the staff a bit of headache.
"Play nice." Mum "Mercy, even to the least deserved." "Revenge is beneath me, but Accidents happen..." "Even Echoes fade to silence."
None of you seem to get what Krazy is trying to say.
Let's say my evil character is out hunting with his vampire companion, giving him orders, fighting side by side with him. All the while a rogue has been following along watching, and he is now quite certain that the vampire is my allied summon.
The rogue decides to strike from the shadows, and kills the vampire where it stands. My evil character, being somewhat intelligent, realizes that the rogue most likely knows the summon was mine. He threatens the rogue with his life, making it clear that PvP is coming. The rogue opts to walk away, taking the "RP out".
My character has no choice but to let the rogue go without breaking the PvP rules. The rogue proceeds to spread the description of my character to everyone he comes across, proclaiming him a vile necromancer.
In this example, the rules were followed, and as a result my character is now branded a necromancer. He had no chance to prevent the information from getting out, due to the PvP rules. I'm not suggesting that this happens a lot, but it could happen due to how the rules are currently structured.
Considerate_ wrote:I'll just summarize my first post in bulletpoints.
Wear a hood
Concoct a plausible story, its your word against theirs
Poke the person OOCly and through the magic of dialogue, ask them not to reveal the specifics of your characters identity as they opted to take the RP out.
Tamara - "I've seen colours you would never dream of" Neschera - "Logic can bring you from one step to the next, creativity can bring you from anywhere to everywhere"
Molag__Bal wrote:None of you seem to get what Krazy is trying to say.
Let's say my evil character is out hunting with his vampire companion, giving him orders, fighting side by side with him. All the while a rogue has been following along watching, and he is now quite certain that the vampire is my allied summon.
The rogue decides to strike from the shadows, and kills the vampire where it stands. My evil character, being somewhat intelligent, realizes that the rogue most likely knows the summon was mine. He threatens the rogue with his life, making it clear that PvP is coming. The rogue opts to walk away, taking the "RP out".
My character has no choice but to let the rogue go without breaking the PvP rules. The rogue proceeds to spread the description of my character to everyone he comes across, proclaiming him a vile necromancer.
In this example, the rules were followed, and as a result my character is now branded a necromancer. He had no chance to prevent the information from getting out, due to the PvP rules. I'm not suggesting that this happens a lot, but it could happen due to how the rules are currently structured.
That is just bad form rp-wise from the attacker's side imho. If they know you did the summon, then they're nitpicking targets. Would be better if they avoided attacking altogether because they should know that they have two potential opponents to deal with if that's the case. Pvp rules were put up for the player's sake, it shouldn't be used to dictate how their character would react. Having said that, you can't have auto-consent set against the other guy for killing your summon, unless you know for sure that they know you summoned it.
For all they know, they were doing everybody a huge favor for killing such things. You can leave it at that or try to impose your evilness. That way, they also can't be spreading rumors about you without proof.
Molag__Bal wrote:None of you seem to get what Krazy is trying to say.
Let's say my evil character is out hunting with his vampire companion, giving him orders, fighting side by side with him. All the while a rogue has been following along watching, and he is now quite certain that the vampire is my allied summon.
The rogue decides to strike from the shadows, and kills the vampire where it stands. My evil character, being somewhat intelligent, realizes that the rogue most likely knows the summon was mine. He threatens the rogue with his life, making it clear that PvP is coming. The rogue opts to walk away, taking the "RP out".
My character has no choice but to let the rogue go without breaking the PvP rules. The rogue proceeds to spread the description of my character to everyone he comes across, proclaiming him a vile necromancer.
In this example, the rules were followed, and as a result my character is now branded a necromancer. He had no chance to prevent the information from getting out, due to the PvP rules. I'm not suggesting that this happens a lot, but it could happen due to how the rules are currently structured.
Thank you - that's it exactly!
Lady Morticia - Terror of the Nine Hells, First Keeper of the Unholy Secrets, Inflicter of Unbearable Pain, Most Revered Mistress of Animated Flesh and Scourge of the Hated Knife-ears (and Scarlett)
As a point of clarification, I thought an attack on somebody's summoned companion was consenting to PvP. At least I was told that by former staff (older regime). Is this now incorrect? In Molag's example, the necromancer has a choice. He or she could try to play it off or kill the rogue (or try).
I'm all for a rule stating that if you attack someone's summons you auto consent to PvP with them. As I said, I thought we already had that rule. It seemed to me that Krazy was asking for something broader than that rule, which I wouldn't support.
Molag__Bal wrote:None of you seem to get what Krazy is trying to say.
Let's say my evil character is out hunting with his vampire companion, giving him orders, fighting side by side with him. All the while a rogue has been following along watching, and he is now quite certain that the vampire is my allied summon.
The rogue decides to strike from the shadows, and kills the vampire where it stands. My evil character, being somewhat intelligent, realizes that the rogue most likely knows the summon was mine. He threatens the rogue with his life, making it clear that PvP is coming. The rogue opts to walk away, taking the "RP out".
My character has no choice but to let the rogue go without breaking the PvP rules. The rogue proceeds to spread the description of my character to everyone he comes across, proclaiming him a vile necromancer.
In this example, the rules were followed, and as a result my character is now branded a necromancer. He had no chance to prevent the information from getting out, due to the PvP rules. I'm not suggesting that this happens a lot, but it could happen due to how the rules are currently structured.
This scenario makes no sense to me, the rogue doesn't have to attack the summon and gains nothing by doing it except revealing himself.
Either the good guy attacks immediately, not knowing who the summoner is, or he attacks later, once he has a good idea of the situation.
Sure he can strike the summon first and pretend to save you from the vampire, even if he knows the truth, but it's all up to the necromancer at this point.
Either he puts up an act, thanking the rogue for saving him or he goes the PvP route. If the rogue takes the RP out (that's one seriously stupid rogue), I would expect the RP out to imply that the rogue won't know or speak about what he saw.
A RP out isn't reduced to "walking away" in my opinion, if I'm wrong about this then this rule has to be changed.
