Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

PvP doesn't matter in the equation. Unless both PCs stare at eachother for 3 minutes while they both buff up to godlike states, the PvP that's going to happen will be with one or both lacking a lot of buffs, primarily because of the requirement of RP'ing an out first, which can take a lot of time, especially when including any prior RP that led to an offense that warranted PvP.

If you want to compare against anything, then compare against something sensible, like killing the Fire Giant King 1 vs 1 or the Yuan-Ti Queen. Any epic level boss with above 2,000 HP that doesn't cast Mord's.

dzidek1983 wrote:i dont fail any save at 1... yes i have steadfast, dont you??

damnation cant touch me cos im mind immune and as i said you dont have the DC to touch me on a will save and i dont fail on 1's

You know, somehow I highly doubt you have steadfast determination on your DC cleric. You mean to tell me you wasted feats on toughness and steadfast, 2 feats, on a build that's highly feat starved? If you did, then it's YOUR build that's seriously gimped.

Let me count for you: Prac spellcaster, spellcasting prodigy, focus: evo, greater focus: evo, empower, extend, possibly combat casting (if you wanna go the warpriest route, which gives +2 more caster levels and +1 more DC overall PLUSS spot class skill and aura)

You're not going to fit neither toughness nor steadfast in that build. At all.

Even IF you took steadfast, let's look at what it does: "You can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier on Will saves. You do not automatically fail Fortitude saves on a roll of natural 1." Says nothing about not failing your will save on a 1. Damnation is a will save, unblockable. So either you're wrong, or the description from the wiki is wrong.

Either way, I'd be very interested in seeing how you fit 2 feats into an aasimar DC cleric build without gimping it severely.

PS: mireigi, those cleric spells that matter are long term (energy immunity is 24 hrs, death ward is 1 hr per level, i.e. 32 hours in my case). Odds are you will indeed have most your protective wards up as a cleric, all of the time. The only cleric buffs that are short are the +AB ones, and it'd be silly casting all those in PvP as a blaster cleric.

This is what pops into my mind when I think of PvP with full prebuffs:

Source: The Noob Comic / Cliché Quest

The description is wrong. The feat is bugged and will make both fortitude and will saves not automatically fail on a 1. Should it be fixed? Yeah. But so should the Practiced Spellcaster bug.

Carbondk wrote: Either way, I'd be very interested in seeing how you fit 2 feats into an aasimar DC cleric build without gimping it severely.

Earth domain. And don't go warpriest.

Level 1 Prodigy, level 3 extend, level 6 spell focus, level 9 greater spell focus, level 12 maximize (or empower), level 15 quicken, level 18 steadfast. Rearrange as you see fit.

Lets go with evocation. Here you get 8 epic feats. 34 wisdom and Epic Spell Focus. Or an epic spell if you want! That's a 31+spell level DC for evocation. 43 DC implosion. Cool. That's a better DC than you can get on vampiric feast or damnation (which is 40 with a cleric, by the way: 25 + wisdom + prodigy). You can even drop the ESF and take one of those epic spells and go for a 42 DC implosion and a 40 DC epic spell.

And as long as you're buffed up, you can't be hurt by those spells yourself. Because you have steadfast.

Carbondk wrote: Even so. Moving on. Vamp feast yes. Kills you outright at least on the roll of 1 if you have huge fort saves. Same with damnation vs. will. That means 2 chances in a row to one-click kill you, no protection but the save. Wanna take the chances?

If I have Steadfast Determination, sure ;9

I almost always try to include it in any build I do even with low Con, just for that awesome advantage.

first of all

if you are mind immune like from protection from alignment and dont fail a save the spell does nothing, not even daze for 1d4

i would really need to roll a 1 to fail cos you DC is lower then my save

and yes steadfast is bugged and protects from a 1 on a will save too
hell even if i dont have it... you have 5% chance for it to work on me

you are going to take a 5% chance in PvP? i doubt it

as for your count
on a pure cleric there is no prblem doing it, and you know it... i even have feat left
spellcasting prodigy, focu: evo, greater focus: evo, empower, extend, toughness, steadfast and the feat on lvl 18 left that i will use for quicken (spell mantles)

dzidek1983 wrote: you are going to take a 5% chance in PvP? i doubt it

No need for epic spells ;0. You can just spam scrolls of Petrification at someone and hope for them to roll a 1.

Earth domain is tied to very few specific deities. You can't just pick and choose unless you wanna disregard your RP and deity. AND it also means less direct damage spells versus having taken other domains.

Not going WP means losing out on +2 CL and +1 free DC, losing the WP aura and losing access to spot skill, and losing access to weapons like warhammer (martial), and tower shield. Bad choice. Gimp, gimp, gimp.

Anyway, this discussion was whether to take epic spells or + WIS feats, not to include this or that PRC or this or that feat. Take all that into account, and we're discussing what class/build is better, and we'll end up with the usual mage for PvP or FS for PvE.

But I'm repeating myself here for the millionth time, I don't really have anything else to add. Agree with my PoW, disagree, I don't really give a (do-me).

Styxwash wrote:I've been wondering about what the advantage of taking epic spell focus over a spell casting stat point is. Could anyone shed some light on this thought.

I mean, if I pick epic spell focus, have 33 base Intelligence +Fox's Cunning, I end up with up with 37 Intelligence and +1 to a specific school.

If I don't pick epic spell focus and instead raise Int to 34 base + Fox, I end up with 38 Intelligence, gaining +1 DC to all schools, rather than just one.

Am I missing something here?

Are we expected to have 34 Int to be competitive? And how?

Valkyrie wrote:

Styxwash wrote:I've been wondering about what the advantage of taking epic spell focus over a spell casting stat point is. Could anyone shed some light on this thought.

I mean, if I pick epic spell focus, have 33 base Intelligence +Fox's Cunning, I end up with up with 37 Intelligence and +1 to a specific school.

If I don't pick epic spell focus and instead raise Int to 34 base + Fox, I end up with 38 Intelligence, gaining +1 DC to all schools, rather than just one.

Am I missing something here?

Are we expected to have 34 Int to be competitive? And how?

If you want your mage to have reliable DCs on BG? Yes, unfortunately you have to maximize completely for it due to the saves of epic content mobs.

But you don't have to be a DC mage.