Epic Spell Focus Question (Resolved)

[Styxwash]

I've been wondering about what the advantage of taking epic spell focus over a spell casting stat point is. Could anyone shed some light on this thought.

I mean, if I pick epic spell focus, have 33 base Intelligence +Fox's Cunning, I end up with up with 37 Intelligence and +1 to a specific school.

If I don't pick epic spell focus and instead raise Int to 34 base + Fox, I end up with 38 Intelligence, gaining +1 DC to all schools, rather than just one.

Am I missing something here?

[Carbondk]

Yes, you're missing the fact that not everyone has uneven primary stat scores.

Thus, taking 1 feat can raise your DCs by 1, whereas it would take 2 feats to increase your primary stat 2, in order to gain the +1 modifier.

[Styxwash]

Yes, you're missing the fact that not everyone has uneven primary stat scores.

Thus, taking 1 feat can raise your DCs by 1, whereas it would take 2 feats to increase your primary stat 2, in order to gain the +1 modifier.

Well, I didn't mention that, cause it's pretty obvious. I was just referring to the example I used.

But if your goal is to get a high DC, your likely gonna dedicate more then one epic feat to it. And you can always plan your pre-epic bonus stats to be uneven, which is often a good choice anwyay considering +3 items and the number of stat points you gain from levelling.

[Carbondk]

Not really. Your +4 spell will always outdo any item you find. Thus, it's better to aim for an even stat, find a +3 (maybe that rare +4) item, and use a +4 spell for extra DC.

[Aelcar]

I've been wondering about what the advantage of taking epic spell focus over a spell casting stat point is. Could anyone shed some light on this thought.

I mean, if I pick epic spell focus, have 33 base Intelligence +Fox's Cunning, I end up with up with 37 Intelligence and +1 to a specific school.

If I don't pick epic spell focus and instead raise Int to 34 base + Fox, I end up with 38 Intelligence, gaining +1 DC to all schools, rather than just one.

Am I missing something here?

Yes, actually. If you have 33 INT, the benefit is nonexistent. ESF is extremely useful when you have 32 INT + Epic Spell + ESF. If you are not interested in any Epic Spell, or if you do not have the feats to get such a high INT, then go ahead and skip it in order to have INT 34 + 4 + Prodigy.

Proper DC Wizards dont use +3 INT items.

[Styxwash]

Not really. Your +4 spell will always outdo any item you find. Thus, it's better to aim for an even stat, find a +3 (maybe that rare +4) item, and use a +4 spell for extra DC.

You start with 18 Int and put 6 points into it = 24 + Epic Spell Focus
You start with 18 Int and put 7 points into it = 25 + 1 Epic Int

With example one you might as well spend one more point of Int from leveling and take a point of Epic Int instead of Epic Spell Focus. DC's end up the same.

If you start with a lower and uneven base Int, you can of course use those unspent base stat points on something else, but I was asking from a DC boosting perspective where you don't compromise the main stat (this doesn't mean it has to start at 18 or 20, it could also be 16, but from your perspective it would always yield 1 lower DC because you compromise on the casting stat.) But I suppose that's the use for Epic Spell Focus, if you wan't to make a more balanced build.

Edit : it's true, +3 items are not relevant, but the fact that you get 7 stat points from leveling is.

[Carbondk]

Your math is wrong. Not all people care for using 7 epic feats on stat increases.
Some of us actually like our epic spells. Nuff said.

[dzidek1983]

thats not epic feats he is counting those are base stat increases every 4th level

[Jaron]

It's in the same boat as picking EWF. If you only have 1 additional Epic Feat you'll get an extra DC (ESF) or AB (EWF). That's what it's for.

Your math is wrong. Not all people care for using 7 epic feats on stat increases.
Some of us actually like our epic spells. Nuff said.

+1

[dzidek1983]

It's in the same boat as picking EWF. If you only have 1 additional Epic Feat you'll get an extra DC (ESF) or AB (EWF). That's what it's for.

Your math is wrong. Not all people care for using 7 epic feats on stat increases.
Some of us actually like our epic spells. Nuff said.

+1

thats not epic feats he is counting those are base stat increases every 4th level

[dzidek1983]

It's in the same boat as picking EWF. If you only have 1 additional Epic Feat you'll get an extra DC (ESF) or AB (EWF). That's what it's for.

Your math is wrong. Not all people care for using 7 epic feats on stat increases.
Some of us actually like our epic spells. Nuff said.

+1

it seems you are those dead wizards we see all the time...

[Carbondk]

dzidek1983 are you unable to think logically?

Yeah you can put all your regular stat pumps into e.g. WIS, and take one! (1) stat increase feat and put the rest into epic spells and epic spell focus.

That would - along with a +4 spell - bring you a higher DC total than taking the last +1 stat increase.

Nuff nuff said?

[dzidek1983]

yhym so you intentionally gimp all your DC's including the epic spells DC's to have more epic spells rather then one but really strong and a stronger regular spell book

[Carbondk]

Uhm, no. It's not really called 'gimping' when you have a DC 41 implosion, now is it?

Your character would have a DC 43 implosion, true, and what is the value of that compared to a DC 41 one? Minimal.

Mine, however, has uninterruptable 300 mass heal (damage for undeads), 3 x irresistable greater ruin, 3 x DC ~ 40 epic call lightning for mass area damage, vampiric feast and irresistable damnation insta-kill. Every rest.

Sometimes, it ain't all about the DCs.

[dzidek1983]

cant say anything about your numbers if i dont know the build

one thing i know is every spell you mentioned has a save...
and epic spells only use 25+cating mod+prodigy DC
so for a ~40 DC epic lightning storm you need to have 40-25-1 = 14 WIS mod

that translates to 38 Wisdom

please explain....