Should the quests be considered OOC?

[Snarfy]

Ahh, nice cherry pick from a topic completely unrelated to questing/grinding/the means by which players gain experience points, Steve! Context is important. You should really try harder to put things into it before you take the words out of peoples mouths. If you did, you just might be able to glean the perspective of the player in question that you've quoted...

Tell ya what, since you're so invested in the state of role-play here, I've decided I'll help you out and share my perspective with you. Come on down from that big ol' horse of yours and let your old friend Snarfy tell you a little secret...

... are you ready?

This server is not exclusively a "role-play" server. I believe calling it such has become something of a misnomer. No matter how you or I might wish it, no-one is truly expected to stay in-character from the moment they log on until the second they log off. I would even go so far as to say they're even encouraged not to do so, otherwise we wouldn't have all these seemingly contentious mechanisms(quests, fishing, grinding) in place for players to gain XP. Am I right?

This is a role-play preferred server that selectively permits players to acquire experience points via out-of-character means. In my perspective(still with me Steve? ... just checking ), several things would need to transpire in order for BG to truly be a "Role Play Server"... at least one that would meet mine and Steves impossible standards for role-play:

1. Quests are made one time only.

2. Experience gains for killing monsters and/or respawn rates are DRASTICALLY lowered.

3. RP XP gains are given a slight boost

And now for the biggie... *insert drum-roll here*

4. OOC behavior in it's entirety is banned.

In summary: fat chance.

To Steve, et al: selectively coming down on certain types of OOC xp-gaining mechanisms, while giving a free pass for others, is rather hypocritical. I humbly suggest either putting your money where your mouth is/refusing to turn the other cheek every time you see OOC, or simply accept the fact that not everyone enjoys playing/gaining XP in the same manner that you do. Nor are they required to.

[DM Golem]

Hi,

I'm going to ask for this thread to simmer down.

The DM team is discussing two things:

- How to treat the quests that are in game currently, IE how we want to phrase a definitive statement to the players;
- Suggestions for how to alter/change quests in the future (which would require us, of course, to approach the Dev team).

I suspect there is not much that can be added here yet until the DM team is ready to respond.

[Steve]

To Steve, et al: selectively coming down on certain types of OOC xp-gaining mechanisms, while giving a free pass for others, is rather hypocritical.

Example?

[Snarfy]

To Steve, et al: selectively coming down on certain types of OOC xp-gaining mechanisms, while giving a free pass for others, is rather hypocritical.

Example?

Kindly direct me to the posts where you call into question the OOC nature of players grinding zones for hours on end without typing a single line of RP(IE: goodly characters IC'ly exhibiting genocidal/psycopathic behavior) for the purposes of acquiring experience points and we'll take it from there. I'm too lazy to do a search for such, but I would enjoy hearing your opinion on the matter. Cheers.

[DM Golem]

I'm going to ask for this thread to simmer down.

I'll repeat this.

The DM team is discussing this; until then there's little to discuss.

If its going to devolve into critique of play styles its a candidate for locking.

[Boddynock]

Hi,

I'm going to ask for this thread to simmer down.

The DM team is discussing two things:

- How to treat the quests that are in game currently, IE how we want to phrase a definitive statement to the players;
- Suggestions for how to alter/change quests in the future (which would require us, of course, to approach the Dev team).

I suspect there is not much that can be added here yet until the DM team is ready to respond.

If you are open to suggestions on the specifics, Golem. I am in preference of allowing that sort of OOC behavior only if there is literally no alternative. Like an orc in BG is the OOC because that is literally the only place to access certain things. To me, that doesn't apply to your good toon doing things like the imp quest for a few hundred xp you could, without too much trouble, get elsewhere.

Having shared my opinion on the policy, I can also say that I almost never do the quests anyway, because I find them insanely boring and I would rather be entertained while playing than gain xp.

[Duster47]

Like an orc in BG is the OOC because that is literally the only place to access certain things. To me, that doesn't apply to your good toon doing things like the imp quest for a few hundred xp you could, without too much trouble, get elsewhere.

FWIW, years ago some quests would bump alignment depending on choices taken by the PC. Those bumps were all removed to prevent alignment/class issues such as Paly/BGs but the quests otherwise left alone.

[Boddynock]

Like an orc in BG is the OOC because that is literally the only place to access certain things. To me, that doesn't apply to your good toon doing things like the imp quest for a few hundred xp you could, without too much trouble, get elsewhere.

FWIW, years ago some quests would bump alignment depending on choices taken by the PC. Those bumps were all removed to prevent alignment/class issues such as Paly/BGs but the quests otherwise left alone.

Perhaps we consider moving the quests to areas accessible to all? Not sure how feasible that is, but it would remove the excuse for OOC actions to be okay for some people but not okay for others... Right?

[Snarfy]

... I can also say that I almost never do the quests anyway, because I find them insanely boring and I would rather be entertained while playing than gain xp.

Bingo! We all enjoy different methods of gaining XP. And we all have our biases, mine is(obviously) against the mindless-grind mentality. But I've learned to accept that some players prefer/enjoy doing so, hence the reason I try to(and often fail at) not condemn them for it, and instead avoid IG instances where that detracts from my playing experience.

My biggest guilty pleasure, and I freely admit this, is filling that little blue bar on my character sheet. But there are only so many ways that we can get our XP fix: quests, fishing, grinding, and RP. I would, ideally speaking, love to fill that little bugger up purely by role-playing. Unfortunately, when 50%+ of players online are engaged in their preferred method of gaining XP(which is typically of the variety that I do not enjoy), it hinders my ability to find RP. At which point, I turn to my second preferred method of gaining XP... which is, you guessed it, questing. This, just like grinding may be for others, is my fallback.

The simple question that people need to ask themselves here is this: are my preferred methods of gaining XP any more valid than the next players? Ideally speaking, role-play should trump all, but playing circumstances often do not afford us the luxury of such. We try to make the best of, and sometimes only make due, with what is available to us in order to glean some sense of enjoyment from the playing environment.

[Steve]

At which point, I turn to my second preferred method of gaining XP... which is, you guessed it, questing

This is not an argument against Questing in principle; it is an argument against questing with the AFK tag above your toon. While questing, your room is "active" in the environment, whether anyone likes it or not. The Server Rules ask all players to stay in-character, but that is not possible if a toon has an AFK over its head.

Again: this is not a critique on any one play style—though I admit I do like to make fun of them from time to time—it is a discussion on how having an AFK tag up does not generate RP, while Quests CAN generate RP. That is more or less my view on it.

[Boddynock]

@Snarfy

That's a good point in favor of making the quests more easily accessed by all races. I personally don't like questing, and when there isn't RP to find I turn on some music and go grind (I can't even stand grinding for too long honestly) but for people who like grinding less than I do, there are limited other options. Let them quest I say!

But since this topic is about whether or not the quests should be OOC... Perhaps the reality of the situation is, for now, if we can't get the quests moved or whatever, that we have to let them be OOC to give people who don't like one style of play an equal chance to get their leveling on. (Which I am not personally a fan of, but I am not Emperor for life of BGTSCC, am I? )

And I don't know how hard it is to mess with the quests, but it seems like some changes would be easier than others. Take Jaspen's quest for instance... Stick him in an acolyte's robe and move him outside the Temple of Kossuth by Gullykin, and tada, he is a temple acolyte who lost his pet and/or a possible upcoming sacrifice. You don't have to mess with the quest mechanics, or probably even the text... And everyone can go down there.

[Snarfy]

Do you consider the quests OOC?

The OP did not even raise the issue of questing with an AFK tag up. That point was brought up by yourself, Steve, when you brought it over from another thread. Needless to say, I believe I sufficiently explained my reasoning behind the instance where I had an afk tag up... a lone instance, I might add, that is not necessarily symptomatic, or even a common occurrence, where questing players are concerned.

Based on my encounters while questing, I would say that many players stay IC when doing quests, myself included(for example: Damariel, my WM elf, brings out his hammer to hobble the bandits in the farmlands cave instead of kill them). In the last two days I have even had three encounters where the characters I came across while questing were RP'ing such(one instance only moments ago even). So, yes, quests can and do generate RP.

@ Boddynock

I personally have no problems with quests being moved to areas more accessible for nefarious types. Even grey orcs deserve to get quest-XP... *he admitted begrudgingly*

[Steve]

Grymhild posted the OP 11 minutes after DM Ditto posted his pink text opinion about the staff considering quests OOC.

[thids]

It's not even about accessibility of quest givers that much, it's about the concept of scripted quests (which take control over your character's actions and thoughts at time) in a PERSISTENT WORLD ran by DM's. They should not exist, and they most certainly should not be enforced as an IC interaction by DM's or players with "holier than thou" attitude. There is nothing anyone can do about quest givers that doesn't involve the scripted back and forth between them and the PC's. Can my character rob the two stupid halflings who keep losing their keys in goblin caves and keep giving out THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of gold to players every week? No. Can a paladin kill the imp who has a weird fetish involving minotaur horns and hill giant dung (and also hands out thousands upon thousands of gold every 7 days)? No...

90% of the quests are interactions between PC's and NPC's which exist outside of our persistent world. Those interactions do not effect our persistent world in any way or shape. Those interactions do nothing but grant xp and gold. They are not IC.

Yet still, there is no one stopping people from treating them as an IC thing, for their own characters, nor is anyone advocating that people should be forced to consider them as an OOC thing for their own characters.

[Snarfy]

I can't disagree with a single thing you just added Thids. Furthermore... *slow clap*.