Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Much of this is, unfortunately, the result of the bifurcation that this server has long tried to marry with mixed success.

And given the regular population of both (baR)P and powergaming grinders pillaging the countryside, I don't think either camp can press a firm argument that one is 'most', contrary to Akroma's suggestion that the 'most' avoid (baR)P like the plague.

To return to the OP, PW economies are so very difficult to get right and threads like these do much to raise concerns. I would only hope that as a community we can think of fruitful ways to move forward that sates the expectations of both without going too far overboard either way.

Blame The Rogue wrote: adventures are the primary way a character will earn gold and items

Most of the time an adventure results in money loss, or a broken bottle as a reward.

I had a blast few days ago going through a location I never visited before. However, I haven't really earned anything during that time and plus wasted few thousands gold worth of scrolls, in order to, well, not to die. That was a real adventure. It was completely unprofitable, though, gold-wise, item-wise, xp-wise. But it was incredibly entertaining.

When we talk about earning gold and items, the primary way is repeatedly running through "safe" dungeons you visited before, in hopes that you get a better drop you can sell off. Thats slightly different from adventuring. It is a loot run. Which is less like adventure and more like "repetitive job-like activity". It is completely unentertaining, you know what to expect, but it gets you gold and items.

----

My advice would be - try to play a non-violent character (pacifist or a coward) and avoid ALL combat. At the same time, travel a lot and don't do any quests. See how that works.

i'll agree to disagree. a loot run, though i hate that term, as again, it seems derogatory in nature, and adventuring, is the same. it's most fun when done ic, imo, at least for me. adventuring is adventuring, whether with others, or alone, with dm, or without, in a new area, or familiar area. it's semantics imo

there's already talk of fixing the loot system, and i believe there's already something on the to do list. i'm sure someone on staff can post a link or just a comment on the subject

Hello Kellendril,

first of all, sad to hear you feel that way: no one should. Second, I believe things are much better than you think.

From your post, quoted below, it seems to me (correct me if I am wrong) the issue you have can be portrayed as follows:

1 - you favor relatively "tranquil" RP in a PnP style, where combat is rarer, over the kind of active adventuring NWN2 ( and thus, its PWs) is built upon.
2 - this kind of playstyle yields less overall gold than other options, and thus you feel the items in the shop are far beyond your reach
3 - past DM rewards (including your own item) are constituted by inferior items with respect to what the shop offers.
4 - You have little chance to participate to DM events because of your RL situation, and find some of the more time-consuming, yet lucrative activities possible a bad use of your limited playtime.
5 - Despite your playstyle (which we defined "tranquil"), meaningful, long-standing RP will ensure your character will still make/ has made powerful enemies, especially PCs, who will in time (or already have) take advantage of the epic shop's wares
6 - And thus, you are concerned that not only your character will be generally less relevant, but also that the PC rivals you have in game (present and future), who like looting far more than you, will heavily influence your RP via actual PvP or PvP threats because of the added item advantage.

If this is correct, then I believe you actually have a few reasons to be happy: the shop is actually there for YOU. Yes, you and the other players with the same concern you mentioned. Glad you brought up the point. Take a look:

- Your gold is so low today because that shop wasn't there. With its coming, you can ask DMs to reward you with exactly the amount of gold you need for your target item for your RP accomplishments. Instead of grinding for a few weeks, you'll RP, write posts, and so on...done. Before, nobody would even have thought of it (people have been questioning if gold is even worth anything several times since I am here).

- The items you get as DM rewards can be on that level. Fairly. Before, some players would get better items, some worse, and only the most mechanically competent DMs would be able to tell what's actually fair, with 90% of them erring on the side of caution, and rewarding with a piece of crap (in good faith, mind you!!). This frees DMs' hands, and even helps the newest ones: if they want to play safe, they can give you the item you want taken directly from the shop, with another appearance/effect/backstory etc., but totally fair and with no 3 months-long, 25 pages discussion on DM forums needed to defend their choice.

- Last but not least: Avernus SHOWS what you can actually get. Some gear I have seen in my years here is actually so good it already IS on Avernus' level. And I have seen it in 2012 already. Not talking about grandfathered items: pure, perfect RNG, obtained in countless hours of loot runs. Months and months, hours and hours, by admission of the players involved. NONE OF THAT WILL BE NEEDED ANYMORE: epic shops make sure YOU will be able to get those items TOO.

If this is not fair, and to your advantage, then I don't know what is: all the things you don't like doing suddenly become optional, when they were de facto mandatory.

kellendril wrote:Well, this won't be a "hey everyone is happy and agreeing" thread..but I need to put this out there:

The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

for me its all just play money. the other day I had purchased a cloak of stealth for 75,000 gold. then sold it at cost to a player. the buyer paid me, got the cloak, then about 15 to 20 minutes later the server crashed. I still had the gold but the cloak was just gone.

Instead of telling the player tuff luck I contacted a dm and tried to explain the situation. Sadly for the player we was told that they needed to have a screenshot in order to replace the cloak.

I felt bad for the player..........so much so that I asked the dm to take the 75,000 gold out of my inventory and replace the players cloak that had been destroyed by the server crash.

To be clear, 75,000 gold is quite a lot of gold to me. a loot run takes an hour and i rarely get more than 10,000 gold from them. in effect I gave her a days worth of my labor in loot runs.

I am not a loot grinder. I much prefer to rp. but just like my rl job I realize that some sort of income is required in order to put meals on the table. I tend to do my loot runs in adventure style. I.E. Terri finds a low level and invites them along to go "Treasure hunting". Rp Adventuring ensues. we talk, walk, and come out of our dungeon delving richer in gold and experience.

I am not sure what my point here was. I just wanted people to know that not every loot grinder is just grinding to be a trump. Sometimes they are grinding to be a Stein.

NegInfinity wrote:

Akroma666 wrote: I agree with you on the first one, but the other 2 are quite fun to many. As AC81 just pointed out, he has a merchant character he loves to play. The shop caters to a play style you dont enjoy, so ignore it like most ignore endless tavern or campfire RP. Fairly simple solution.

Auction house woudl've been fun if it actually happened in-game. Because it doesn't happen in-game, and exists on forums, it is unfun.

Selling gear requires repeated loot runs in hopes that "something good" will drop this time. That's not different from grinding.

Playing a merchant is a very different thing from selling gear. Speaking of which, I've never seen AC81's merchant character in the world and the last time I interacted with him in person was in 2014, when he was playing Quinath Nar.

Hi Negs,
figured I should respond here but I'm mindful of not straying too far off topic so I'll try to link back to the OP -
Draviir is more of a specialty merchant, what he trades you won't find in chests so I very rarely loot run (although he is capable and will loot while in a group). So with the type of items I'm trading, this shop actually hurts business very badly for me. This is in essence why I've recently opened another forum thread where I have some very good items for sale at much more affordable prices than Avernus (shameless plug see auction house forum). This is the filter down effect an epic shop like Avernus has - it will lower prices across the board. If you can't afford Avernus items maybe now you will be able to afford basic +4 gear because there is now an effective price cap on such gear. And as more Avernus items leak out, those basic prices will go down further.
As far as my PC goes, he is my only PC I play now so if you haven't seen him it's probably because our play times differ, not because he's not a real character as you hopefully accidentally implied. Also, he isn't your standard 'merchant' PC (ie, loot monster favoured soul). He's a human fighter who doesn't use magic, has squeezed in max appraise and lore:arcana. He also has no chance of ever solo'ing Avernus and as such if he wants to go, he either pays someone to take him or he gathers up a party.
Lastly, true wealth (at least in its last incarnation) could be achieved purely through RP. Upgrading on the forums and through Mudds is the quickest and best way - loot grinding has never been time effective and none of the best wealth accumulators do it.
So really, this shop just hurts (a little) the mega rich. It doesn't hurt the poorer in the long run because items serve to close gaps in item disparity. The players who are truly laughing are the same ones - players of arcanes, divines. But we don't like to talk about that ....

AC81 wrote:

NegInfinity wrote:

Akroma666 wrote: I agree with you on the first one, but the other 2 are quite fun to many. As AC81 just pointed out, he has a merchant character he loves to play. The shop caters to a play style you dont enjoy, so ignore it like most ignore endless tavern or campfire RP. Fairly simple solution.

Auction house woudl've been fun if it actually happened in-game. Because it doesn't happen in-game, and exists on forums, it is unfun.

Selling gear requires repeated loot runs in hopes that "something good" will drop this time. That's not different from grinding.

Playing a merchant is a very different thing from selling gear. Speaking of which, I've never seen AC81's merchant character in the world and the last time I interacted with him in person was in 2014, when he was playing Quinath Nar.

Hi Negs,
figured I should respond here but I'm mindful of not straying too far off topic so I'll try to link back to the OP -

Look I don't have any quarrel with you or your characters. Time zone difference probably explains why I haven't seen you since 2014 in IC, although people mentioned you couple of times in tells months after the last time I saw Quinath Nar.

In general, I just don't like trade forum much. It creates strange experience, because you have people describing meeting and arguing near merchants, while in the game those merchants are nowhere to be found. I just find it more fun when people try to trade things in-game which, unforutnately, doesn't happen often. (but it is nice see that at least some people sometimes try to set up a trading stall).

I'd ask everyone posting and reading to answer this question: does epic gear—DM granted via RP or purchased from a merchant PC/NPC—change how you/we, as individuals, Role-Play our Characters, our Character Sheet?

If the answer is no, then there is no problem here.

If the answer is yes, then the conversation should sit on THAT, not an aspect of acquiring epic items, which will ALWAYS remain unbalanced on BGTSCC, because the Economy of the Server—unlimited coin acquisition and constant loot sales—is actually entirely bogus. Heads will never get strong enough to break that brick wall!

If the answer is "Well, you see here..." anecdotal response, then I hope you can realize that others may win and others may lose, and this sometimes is the result of playing Games. But really, one can never really lose anything on BGTSCC, except maybe your RL time (and your sanity...I mean, just look at what happened to Aelcar!!! ).

FYI: last year I gave Karond nearly 3.5 million coin for 3 items I would never ever ever have the chance to acquire otherwise. Now, they are stat wise below what you can get from the merchant linked to Avernus. Doh!

As well, I was gifted an epic item choice by the DMs for RP for the entire year of 2015. I choose to get a high quality item upgraded, and I thought that made it now "epic," and DM special. Well, now equally powerful and more gear is at this Epic merchant. So 1 entire year of heavy RP, the reward, is less than what EVERYONE can get.

It's easy to make yourself unhappy. Others can't make you feel, your feelings are a response to others actions. And I really don't think the epic store was made to upset people, though it may, overall, devalue quite a lot of things—both RP and time spent—gaming on BGTSCC.

Steve wrote:But really, one can never really lose anything on BGTSCC, except maybe your RL time (and your sanity...I mean, just look at what happened to Aelcar!!! ).

Well, quite frankly, I have never been all that normal to begin with Steve...I'd say it's unfair to ascribe my madness to BGTSCC .

Jokes aside, this isn't true at all. There is a lot you can lose on BGTSCC. And it's not your RL time: that's to be considered a well spent diversion if you're having fun (and if you aren't, why are you playing an old game any modern computer has trouble running?!).

You can lose your friends. I still retain some, fortunately, but one or two true friends I have lost.

When people want to throw everything away, I usually try to make sure it's at least justified. In this case, it seems to me some of the more upset players are those the epic shop is going to help the most in the short-mid term.

Irony worthy of Valshar.

Reading through this thread I think a lot of it boils down to feelings of reward and appreciation. Epic items are an easy way to feel rewarded and get a sense of permanent progress; your character got mechanically stronger and no one is going to take that away from you. Gold and shops and loot runs are a clear way to get this sense of progress and reward.

The 'rewards' for non-mechanical RP (Ala RP other than looting and questing and such) however are far more ephemeral and sporadic.

What stood out to me most so far in this thread is Kellendril saying they have only ever had one DM reward item in four years of RP and how they see no clear path to getting items they want through RP.

Powerful subjective rewards are always a tricky thing in a PW. How much RP or community building or such is 'worth' hours of grinding? Is the best way to get items through RP simply hounding the DM team and forcing ones way into as many events as you can? These are tricky question with likely no universally accepted or pretty answer.

This all cycles back to the start to me though. People like feeling appreciated and rewarded for their efforts. Perhaps raining a few more +3 items on RPers would be a good solution? It is the vastness of the divide that is staggering sometimes as if you do not actively partake in the mechanical aspect of the server you will never even get decent +2 gear and constantly have under 10k gold.

kellendril wrote:The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

A travesty? A slap on the face? Really? Lets take the shop out. How were you able to buy epic items then? A +4pair of boots went for 700K with no stats. How on earth were you able to get them before. All the players you derogatory call looters, grinders etc, were able to purchase those items. So back then, not only you had to pay more, but you also had to compete with those "bad" players in order to get them.

Then this shop comes and makes such epic items abailable TO ALL. There is no need to compete with all those players you mentioned above.

This server offers many options and choosing one does not mean you cannot do another. Adventuring, Campfire Rp, Social events, combat events etc. Just because you chose to focus on one aspect, doesnt mean the rest of us should do the same, or the server should be designed to accomodate fully your unique playstyle.

The three negative posts made here, happen to be from three players from the same guild. At least two of them spend many hours in game and of course they create much RP for all of us to enjoy. How hard is during those ours to make one or two patrols to hit a dungeon or two. Hell, the minotaur takes just 10mins to complete and has 8 chests that everyone can loot. making a couple of thousand there is not much and if by chance you get to find an item you can sell, you can make much more for that. So, the part where you say that you only have 8k is a weak excuse and it happens because you CHOSE to.

Finally, the only travesty, the only slap in the face is to those that had epic items before. A pair of +4 boots with +3hide/ms would sell for a couple of milions and a couple epic items. Now they worth less than the ones in the shop. The same with +4 amulets and the weapons etc. People like me, had their items that were acquired by many hours of looting/grinding/trading lose so much value, that i should have been raging in the forums and threatening to leave. Players like me should have been making posts like yours. I dont see anyone doing that. Not only because it is a FAIR change in general for the whole payerbase, but it seems that such players accept the new challenges the devs and dms put ahead of them, instead of complaining in the forums.

Long story short, you got this the other way around. Not only now you have access to ipec items you wouldnt before ( while others did ) but you can also acquire them without spending millions or giving away any epic items. You should be happy about that.

Ravial wrote:This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

What RP reason you have to go kill the FK, the lizard chief, the balor, or any other dungeon? Exploration, adventuring, getting there by mistake are just a few reasons i can think of, while tehre are other ways to acquire such items, since some are alreaedy sale them in auction. Finally, on a more personal note and something that will prove that you only need the will to do domething, I cant believe a player found a way to change the race of his character amd nmot find a reason to get to Avernus!!!!

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

I talked about the slap in the face above. You got it the otehr way around. Why i quoted this is for this: How many DM rewards you get? Normally it is one per year other two. The majority of players get none. Being able to work with a DM on plot ( and get rewards ) is a priviledge. The fact you get items is a bonus. Such rewards, in my view should be the customizations of items ( stats ) to fit the unique player character.

Also what about those that do not have the time to take part in events ( or dont want to ). Those that do not sit around waiting for DM events to happen? No items for those players?

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Wow... So just because i like that shop I belong to one of these categories??? Honestly, reading posts like that, is the most elitist crap i have ever heard. As i said before, the server ( thank god) provides support for many options. Not just campfire RP. Just because you chose to play with one option in mind doesnt mean that is all you can do.

In summary, this shop had the opposite results than what some in this thread claim. It made epic gear for players like kellendril and ravial not only available to them, but affordable as well, compared to what was before. Instead of complaining about it, I would try to fit adventuring in my playing time and get those items.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

kellendril wrote:The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

A travesty? A slap on the face? Really? Lets take the shop out. How were you able to buy epic items then? A +4pair of boots went for 700K with no stats. How on earth were you able to get them before. All the players you derogatory call looters, grinders etc, were able to purchase those items. So back then, not only you had to pay more, but you also had to compete with those "bad" players in order to get them.

Then this shop comes and makes such epic items abailable TO ALL. There is no need to compete with all those players you mentioned above.

This server offers many options and choosing one does not mean you cannot do another. Adventuring, Campfire Rp, Social events, combat events etc. Just because you chose to focus on one aspect, doesnt mean the rest of us should do the same, or the server should be designed to accomodate fully your unique playstyle.

The three negative posts made here, happen to be from three players from the same guild. At least two of them spend many hours in game and of course they create much RP for all of us to enjoy. How hard is during those ours to make one or two patrols to hit a dungeon or two. Hell, the minotaur takes just 10mins to complete and has 8 chests that everyone can loot. making a couple of thousand there is not much and if by chance you get to find an item you can sell, you can make much more for that. So, the part where you say that you only have 8k is a weak excuse and it happens because you CHOSE to.

Finally, the only travesty, the only slap in the face is to those that had epic items before. A pair of +4 boots with +3hide/ms would sell for a couple of milions and a couple epic items. Now they worth less than the ones in the shop. The same with +4 amulets and the weapons etc. People like me, had their items that were acquired by many hours of looting/grinding/trading lose so much value, that i should have been raging in the forums and threatening to leave. Players like me should have been making posts like yours. I dont see anyone doing that. Not only because it is a FAIR change in general for the whole payerbase, but it seems that such players accept the new challenges the devs and dms put ahead of them, instead of complaining in the forums.

Long story short, you got this the other way around. Not only now you have access to ipec items you wouldnt before ( while others did ) but you can also acquire them without spending millions or giving away any epic items. You should be happy about that.

Ravial wrote:This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

What RP reason you have to go kill the FK, the lizard chief, the balor, or any other dungeon? Exploration, adventuring, getting there by mistake are just a few reasons i can think of, while tehre are other ways to acquire such items, since some are alreaedy sale them in auction. Finally, on a more personal note and something that will prove that you only need the will to do domething, I cant believe a player found a way to change the race of his character amd nmot find a reason to get to Avernus!!!!

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

I talked about the slap in the face above. You got it the otehr way around. Why i quoted this is for this: How many DM rewards you get? Normally it is one per year other two. The majority of players get none. Being able to work with a DM on plot ( and get rewards ) is a priviledge. The fact you get items is a bonus. Such rewards, in my view should be the customizations of items ( stats ) to fit the unique player character.

Also what about those that do not have the time to take part in events ( or dont want to ). Those that do not sit around waiting for DM events to happen? No items for those players?

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Wow... So just because i like that shop I belong to one of these categories??? Honestly, reading posts like that, is the most elitist crap i have ever heard. As i said before, the server ( thank god) provides support for many options. Not just campfire RP. Just because you chose to play with one option in mind doesnt mean that is all you can do.

In summary, this shop had the opposite results than what some in this thread claim. It made epic gear for players like kellendril and ravial not only available to them, but affordable as well, compared to what was before. Instead of complaining about it, I would try to fit adventuring in my playing time and get those items.

+1

I think we need to take a look at what has occurred since epic items have become available in shops... Dodge Boots, Natural Armor Amulets and Deflection AC items used to go for ~700K or more, with no extra's... It took me 14 + months to acquire my first +4 dodge boots by looting like a sticky fingered monkey and saving each gold piece until finally I was able to get the funds required (since I had never found an epic drop or received a DM reward at the time). Now, I've seen +4 AC items for going anywhere from ~150K - 300K. While still a lot of gold that is a significant decrease in what folks were paying in the first part of this year and earlier. You know what has NOT lost it's value? Mithral Full Plate (one of the few things not available through a store, you still either need a lucky drop or to save up and wait for a seller in the forums (and hope you can outbid whoever else has been waiting on it). My Bard still strolls around in Mithral Half-Plate because I never found FP and he doesn't have the 800K it would take to get a suit.

Point being, as Aelcar put it (much better than I could, as usual) the folks that don't have time or inclination to 'loot grind' are the ones who have easier access to items now. No matter what we do there will always be a divide between players who have the time and desire to loot grind, participate in long term DM events and otherwise invest energy in ways that leave them with a fantastic reward of higher quality gear. However, what has happened is that 'standard' +4 AC items have come a bit closer to realistically available to anyone. For brand new players, +3 items are selling for between 1/3 and 1/2 what they cost from when I joined up to about 3-4 months ago, also because of the more readily available higher tier gear. +3 Dodge boots are no longer 'end game' gear for the vast majority of players that are unlucky with loot drops and don't have rich friend players who are feeling generous.

Finally, something the epic store does not change is your individual ability to RP with others. Build stories and relationships with other players and whatever epic items are out there for sale or not out there won't matter near as much. I've heard that long time players give newcomers epic quality items for RP, though this never happened to me it's unimportant. Why? Because the gear won't be important when you are being given such a good story by a fellow player that you actually forget your playing the game for a short while. We still have some very good story tellers on this server and not all of them are behind the DM client so make some connections and enjoy the ride! You'll either get epic gear or you won't, but I think you will remember the stories you get to be a part of a lot longer than what items your character had when you retired him/quit playing/whatever. I would humbly suggest folks focus on their character and what they want to achieve, instead of what others have. Jealously is just a path to the Dark Side and you will simply NEVER have anything to compete with the 'top tier' players that have 10-40 million gold and dozens of grandfathered items. (might be a mild exaggeration...maybe) As I said earlier in the post, far better to focus on what you want to realistically achieve for your character and leave it at that.

mrm3ntalist wrote: Finally, the only travesty, the only slap in the face is to those that had epic items before. A pair of +4 boots with +3hide/ms would sell for a couple of milions and a couple epic items. Now they worth less than the ones in the shop. The same with +4 amulets and the weapons etc. People like me, had their items that were acquired by many hours of looting/grinding/trading lose so much value, that i should have been raging in the forums and threatening to leave. Players like me should have been making posts like yours. I dont see anyone doing that. Not only because it is a FAIR change in general for the whole payerbase, but it seems that such players accept the new challenges the devs and dms put ahead of them, instead of complaining in the forums.

(>_<)
+4 boots with +3 hide/ms... I don't wanna imagine how much that would cost. Chances of acquiring something like that via a drop are incredibly close to zero.

I'm gonna take mrm3ntalist's side on this one.
If this kind of gear is available for sale at the very least it could be something worth looking forward to. And speaking of RP characters, if this gear can be bought, then it can be bought and gifted to a pure-RP non-combat character too. Speaking of which there was a paladin that never bought anything and only used things people gave him. He made it into +++ levels.

However, if all gear that can drop is available through a shop, it might make sense to think about what to do with inevitable gear accumulation. I'm not 100% sure about it, but with all items being available for sale, in a severak years time the server might get flooded with them.

Maybe something could be done with twinking rules. But then again it is not an immediate concern and can wait for a LOOONG time.

Kauaiian wrote:

mrm3ntalist wrote:

kellendril wrote:The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

A travesty? A slap on the face? Really? Lets take the shop out. How were you able to buy epic items then? A +4pair of boots went for 700K with no stats. How on earth were you able to get them before. All the players you derogatory call looters, grinders etc, were able to purchase those items. So back then, not only you had to pay more, but you also had to compete with those "bad" players in order to get them.

Then this shop comes and makes such epic items abailable TO ALL. There is no need to compete with all those players you mentioned above.

This server offers many options and choosing one does not mean you cannot do another. Adventuring, Campfire Rp, Social events, combat events etc. Just because you chose to focus on one aspect, doesnt mean the rest of us should do the same, or the server should be designed to accomodate fully your unique playstyle.

The three negative posts made here, happen to be from three players from the same guild. At least two of them spend many hours in game and of course they create much RP for all of us to enjoy. How hard is during those ours to make one or two patrols to hit a dungeon or two. Hell, the minotaur takes just 10mins to complete and has 8 chests that everyone can loot. making a couple of thousand there is not much and if by chance you get to find an item you can sell, you can make much more for that. So, the part where you say that you only have 8k is a weak excuse and it happens because you CHOSE to.

Finally, the only travesty, the only slap in the face is to those that had epic items before. A pair of +4 boots with +3hide/ms would sell for a couple of milions and a couple epic items. Now they worth less than the ones in the shop. The same with +4 amulets and the weapons etc. People like me, had their items that were acquired by many hours of looting/grinding/trading lose so much value, that i should have been raging in the forums and threatening to leave. Players like me should have been making posts like yours. I dont see anyone doing that. Not only because it is a FAIR change in general for the whole payerbase, but it seems that such players accept the new challenges the devs and dms put ahead of them, instead of complaining in the forums.

Long story short, you got this the other way around. Not only now you have access to ipec items you wouldnt before ( while others did ) but you can also acquire them without spending millions or giving away any epic items. You should be happy about that.

Ravial wrote:This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

What RP reason you have to go kill the FK, the lizard chief, the balor, or any other dungeon? Exploration, adventuring, getting there by mistake are just a few reasons i can think of, while tehre are other ways to acquire such items, since some are alreaedy sale them in auction. Finally, on a more personal note and something that will prove that you only need the will to do domething, I cant believe a player found a way to change the race of his character amd nmot find a reason to get to Avernus!!!!

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

I talked about the slap in the face above. You got it the otehr way around. Why i quoted this is for this: How many DM rewards you get? Normally it is one per year other two. The majority of players get none. Being able to work with a DM on plot ( and get rewards ) is a priviledge. The fact you get items is a bonus. Such rewards, in my view should be the customizations of items ( stats ) to fit the unique player character.

Also what about those that do not have the time to take part in events ( or dont want to ). Those that do not sit around waiting for DM events to happen? No items for those players?

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Wow... So just because i like that shop I belong to one of these categories??? Honestly, reading posts like that, is the most elitist crap i have ever heard. As i said before, the server ( thank god) provides support for many options. Not just campfire RP. Just because you chose to play with one option in mind doesnt mean that is all you can do.

In summary, this shop had the opposite results than what some in this thread claim. It made epic gear for players like kellendril and ravial not only available to them, but affordable as well, compared to what was before. Instead of complaining about it, I would try to fit adventuring in my playing time and get those items.

+1

I agree with the above too. Complaining that a DM reward lost its uniqueness when you're in the privileged minority who can participate in a long term DM campaing... isn't fair.

With the new 'godlike' epic items, my non-magic rogue character went from 50+ hide/ms to 60+ hide/ms. Now I can reliably hide and sneak attack in epic areas without discarding my AC or +attribute items.

Among the few complaints I have is that other types of sneaks got buffed as much - notably HiPS mages and rangers who now can easily reach 80s/90s in hide/ms retaining most of their combat prowess. The shop itself might also be "too" sneak oriented. There aren't as many "best-in-slot" items for other classes, barbarians as an example. Maybe the shop's offer could be expanded with time?