Elf Shop Items That Matter

[Kagger911]

No, I have yet to see the Avernus map(s) and have no Toon that has shopped at the Epic Merchant.

The whole Hell/Epic Merchant is, in my humble opinion, ruining plausibility and playability of RP and "epic-ness" of our Characters.

I mean, even M3nt said, and I paraphrase: "Just cast Ethereal and tiptoe through hell to get to the merchant, if you want." Total OOC everything.

Literally, a merchant CONSTANTLY AVAILABLE in the Hells with CONSTANTLY AND UNLIMITED wares is such OOC business that in the end, contributes to a cheaper experience of RP on this Server.

And, that any Character(s) taking the H-Train regularly in order to subvert the reality and RP of going TO THE FRICKIN' HELLZ, is part of a meta-aspect of Role-play.

And I as a Player would be embarrassed contribute to this, by doing it, without DM or Campaign storyline setup.

Good for you? Sorry I can't play to your standards, but . . . .




Now if you want to meta game the fact by not buying off me because you know ooc where the wares come from, by all means. Enjoy the sub par gear.

[Steve]

I didn't know you and your Character were the same thing.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Couldn't level 30 epic characters especially if they banded together go to hell and return in terms of their power?

If not I have to agree that it's a strange position for the shop although I would think it to be nice to be able to buy things from there without having to break my own RP immersion.

Does the thieves guild actually have their own shop as well? And are they even still active at all?

No, I have yet to see the Avernus map(s) and have no Toon that has shopped at the Epic Merchant.

The whole Hell/Epic Merchant is, in my humble opinion, ruining plausibility and playability of RP and "epic-ness" of our Characters.

I mean, even M3nt said, and I paraphrase: "Just cast Ethereal and tiptoe through hell to get to the merchant, if you want." Total OOC everything.

Literally, a merchant CONSTANTLY AVAILABLE in the Hells with CONSTANTLY AND UNLIMITED wares is such OOC business that in the end, contributes to a cheaper experience of RP on this Server.

And, that any Character(s) taking the H-Train regularly in order to subvert the reality and RP of going TO THE FRICKIN' HELLZ, is part of a meta-aspect of Role-play.

And I as a Player would be embarrassed contribute to this, by doing it, without DM or Campaign storyline setup.

Good for you? Sorry I can't play to your standards, but . . . .




Now if you want to meta game the fact by not buying off me because you know ooc where the wares come from, by all means. Enjoy the sub par gear.

[chad878262]

This is a medium RP server that try's to support many styles of play. Hell is (or can be) a challenging area which some people enjoy. Say all you want about epic characters being 1/2 their level, but they still have epic abilities and some players like the idea of epic challenges. Regardless if anyone thinks going to the hells is OOC or if return trips are extra OOC, the fact is the area is a part of the server. Kagger and others have found a unique RP niche that requires them to return, IC to obtain items ordered by others. From what I have seen on forums and heard about in game Sheckles charges less for the items than a character with low/no appraise would pay themselves so I see that as a case of 'everybody wins'. Kagger's character gets a unique RP niche and makes a little profit from his ventures and players that can't or don't want to go to hell still get the items (and in many cases for less than they'd pay if they did make the trip!)

This said, between the Blushing Mermaid, the Barbarian in the Wide, the Thayan's and the Elf shop I would say that in many cases you don't have to 'make do' as your character can still get a lot of different epic gear without hell shop. Sure, Hell has more variety to support some characters (like sneaks), but it is by no means the only good epic shop...Halberd +4 w/ 1-4 bonus bludgeoning damage? Yes please, and not in hell... Longsword +4 w/ 1-4 magic? check, Epic Mithral Chainmail (if it is fixed, haven't checked)...How about epic flails? There is all kinds of really nice gear that requires no use of the hell store or an intermediary if it negatively impacts a persons in game experience.

Frankly I wish I saw Kagger in game more often, the highest appraise on any of my characters is ~28 so he'd probably save me 10's of 1,000's of gold pieces for any of these shops over what my character's have paid in game.

[Kagger911]

I didn't know you and your Character were the same thing.

Good deflection, carry on.

[Steve]

I didn't know you and your Character were the same thing.

Good deflection, carry on.

It is not a deflection, it is my point: things done IC or things done OOC.

And yes, this Server caters to all...: BGTSCC: Where Everybody Wins.

[Kagger911]

I didn't know you and your Character were the same thing.

Good deflection, carry on.

It is not a deflection, it is my point: things done IC or things done OOC.

And yes, this Server caters to all...: BGTSCC: Where Everybody Wins.

BGTSCC: Where Cry Babies Win.

Fixed that for you.

[Steve]

BGTSCC: Where Cry Babies Win.

Fixed that for you.

Would you care to explain yourself? Because otherwise, you continue to prove my point about OOC behavior.

[chad878262]

Look, as someone who experienced BG Pre-epic shops, but post DM's giving out epic rewards, the epic shops HAD to happen. It's unfortunate, IMO that several items got included that are OP, but it hasn't completely ruined the server either. I have seen many of the grandfathered items some players own on their characters and comparing them to the epic shop, they are still better. Heck, just go look at AC81's item list (not calling him out, but it's recent and shows what I'm talking about). Much of that stuff is still as good or in many cases better than what is sold in the hell shop. Heck, I've looked in to what it might take to get some of those items and can tell you I still don't have anything that he values enough to trade them for (and that is fair, his items are unique, I have nothing of equivalent and unique power).

Prior to epic shops it was extremely frustrating to be a new player. Gold was worthless, no matter how much you grind because you will NEVER have an epic weapon, mithral armor or +4 gear with extra's because the chance of finding such items are equivalent to winning Powerball. You might get lucky at some point and a veteran gives you an item that you cherish, but that's about it and is certainly not something that had happened to me. It was an extremely unfair system that felt like 'only people that have been on the server on or before 2012 get to "win" (i.e. have nice gear)'

For those that don't like the shop, no one is required to go there or even recognize it's existence, that's fine. However, looking down on others for enjoying that part of the server is poor form, IMO. Adventurers stumbling upon something they shouldn't and getting in to something over their heads is not unheard of, nor is said adventurers learning they can handle that something and deciding to do it more, if it's profitable.

[Steve]

Not true, Chad. Just last year I was gifted an Epic item because of my year of RP efforts. It is very possible to get the best possible without grinding and with simple RP. THAT is an investment, sure...but I'm far from a daily Player and with severely limited time.

I value RP rewards phenomenally greater than "everybody wins." I play above T-ball philosophy, and sure, many do not play with me on this level (which is their prerogative).

That said, I also value epic merchants, however, not when their placement and usage is far more an OOC issue than one developed via IC RP.

[chad878262]

Not true, Chad. Just last year I was gifted an Epic item because of my year of RP efforts. It is very possible to get the best possible without grinding and with simple RP. THAT is an investment, sure...but I'm far from a daily Player and with severely limited time.

So not true in YOUR experience. It is true in MY experience. I have participated in long term RP plots. I have gifted hundred's of 1,000's of gold for various guild RP / plots, and I have spent a lot of time on forum RP and in game RP advancing and assisting in other players and DM's plots. I have not ever been given such a reward. Was my investment less than your own?

I am not saying this to complain or anything, I'm simply stating that just because YOU got a special gift doesn't mean others get the same. Would it mean more to me if I did earn such a reward? Of course! However, I imagine I am not the only one who has had RP that either wasn't recognized or for whatever reason wasn't rewarded. I know other players that were given opportunities to select a custom DM gift, but it hasn't happened to me. I'm ok with that and not going to start a riot, but I'm not going to feel bad about getting my gear by other methods either.

I still haven't heard what exactly is so OOC about hell? It is an IC plane within the FR Setting. There are or have been portals there in FR novels and video games so it is canon that such can exist. Adventurers end up in the hells through various means in books, video games and setting material, so why is it OOC?

[Kagger911]

BGTSCC: Where Cry Babies Win.

Fixed that for you.

Would you care to explain yourself? Because otherwise, you continue to prove my point about OOC behavior.

pm sent

[TheKai]

Pretty ironic. People were griping about the hell shop merchant's race and location because it was unfair to their RP; now the shoes on the other foot

Its what always happens. Damned if you dont, damned if you do. The good thing about the devs, dms and admins is that they do. They dont sit on their back being afraid of critisism.

*waves at m3nt* Hola amigo!

[professiondude]

Rather than Metagame, i just buy from Shekels.

Tears of joy.

you killed me with this. lol

[Rask]

To those complaining about Hell, I have noticed these are the same people that have been incredibly vocal against an XP raise in the suggestions forums. I am starting to see a trend here and it basically looks like this:

Hidden: show

Personally I think we should put the "hell shop" in the middle of Baldurs Gate city and be done with it. But i'm not the one who makes those decisions.