Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:00 am I'd honestly be bored if, over time, a change is made so that all that is found to fight against are orcs, goblins, bandits, kobolds, gnolls, etc in various CRs.

Thaelis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:02 am I vote for level 16 level cap! (then very slow progression after via daily quest, DM xp etc)

*is immediately lynched by angry mob*

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:50 am It's an issue as old as RP itself. Particularly on private world servers. World of Warcraft even has this issue. Though in that case the issue is mitigated by roleplay servers being separate from regular servers, thus allowing the players on the roleplay servers to experience the numerous kills of a myriad of fantastical monsters in a more sensible way.

BG, however, is not World of Warcraft. It is much too small in comparison to allow a split of the playerbase into RP and regular servers.

My own way of dealing with this issue is to lean on the novels.

In the novels many characters do fantastical things. They kill dragons, balors, and a host of other creatures all by themselves or in small groups. Their exploits are generally not widely known, however, at least not outside the circle of friends they surround themselves with.

Does King Bruenor Battlehammer know that Drizzt has killed a balor? Absolutely. Does the rest of the Companions of the Hall? Absolutely. Does everyone in clan Battlehammer? Unlikely, but there are most likely rumors.

The same extends to our characters. Some friends of our characters know what they did.

Is it reasonable to bring past exploits up in conversation among friends, even when in a public setting? I think it is. Though not for stuff that should remain a secret.

And that is the crux of the problem. When conversing with friends at a public place these topics are likely to crop up. It's part of the usual banter among friends for those characters. Yet the places where characters can sit down to talk on the server are too few, when compared to the vastness of the lands the server depict.

Is there a way to fix it? Not that I know of. Aside from adding in more RP areas, but even that won't remove the issue entirely, just mitigate it somewhat.

The only way I can see this being solved is to make it impossible to solo all of these powerful monsters, and then make quests for them. Quests that go through all the preparation required, with a lot of costs in gold and consumables, taking place over several weeks and thus slowing down the rate of killing to once per RL month per group of 5 characters. Of course the rewards would then have to be adjusted to account for the 100,000 gold or more sunk into the aforementioned preparations.

Such is a huge undertaking by the developers, however, and likely not feasible.

Thus I am back to my original way of dealing with the issue, wherein our characters, unless the Commoner class is picked, are considered comparable to the protagonists of novels. Likely not in terms of power, but at least in terms of exploits.

I also personally consider the Sword Coast on this server to be one in an alternate universe. One where Ao (the Overgod) rolled a dice, and the outcome was that in our universe the Sword Coast is a literal melting pot of strife, where adventurers are born and die. A crucible where only the strong survive, because the entire place has gone mad, and everything is out of proportion. It has become the multiverse equivalent of a Mad Wizard's Maze.

Does that work for everyone? Probably not. But it does for me, and the OP asked how others deal with the issue.

TL;DR:
Our characters are similar to protagonists from the novels, and the Sword Coast on this server is a Mad Wizard's Maze.

gedweyignasia wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:35 am This would not entail removing all variety from enemies; just scaling back the use of rarer monsters so their appearances can be reserved for DM events.

Steve wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:03 amYet on BGTSCC, just walking the Tradeway exposes a PC and thus the Player, to a variety of RP interpretations that, at best, is a 50/50 split that’ll match your own preference.

It is just a game. Find pleasure in it where you can, and where you don’t, walk away. The Server has been dealing with the issues stated in the OP for at least 10 years now—my own tenure—and little to nothing has been done to change it.

izzul wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:11 am example "my PC is a Helmite and comes to Darkhold. he joins the campfire in front of Darkhold and non stop chatting about how Helm is great and mention that his cousin is the leader of Helm temple (the cousin is his alt PC)" -THIS IS BREAKING MY IMMERSION!

izzul wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:11 am the only thing breaking my immersion is

-admitting having relation/ties with alt PC (PC A saying that he is a subordinate of his alt)

-does not follow the city lore (openly announcing their affiliation opposite of the city affiliation)

Alternate Characters
As many as you want, under two conditions:

Alternates can know of each other (and even be related), but under no circumstances are they to exchange information between each other. This includes "off-screen" interactions. Alice may know Bob is a Blood Mage, but if the player behind Alice is also playing Charlie, that player cannot have Alice tell Charlie by any means that Bob is a Blood Mage.

Blackbird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:24 pm I agree with Snarfy here to a point; many of the changes suggested start with players, but as a counterpoint maybe the epic level characters discussing the Notorious Mr. Balor (NMB, as he prefers ) in a historical context are...good? The fact that they accomplished this great historical deed that Bob the Commoner can no longer accomplish because it was truly and historically legendary (and not just a few area transitions away on a timer) actually lends a bit of support to their formerly-mundane Weekend Balor Barbecue.

Valefort wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:40 am Mechanically I think it's much funnier to have 30 levels and a lot of toys to play with, even if it also leads to wide power differences. Toning down the epicness of the deeds and stories, starting with the server content for regular deeds, seems quite desireable to me. It also reopens the field of possibilities for DMs, what's not to like ?

There should be a middle path between fighting only orcs and goblins and sneezing on dracoliches

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:55 pm I’ve been dating for awhile is that the truly epic encounters (Balor, pit fiend, dragons, etc.) could be tuned up a bit. If they weren’t soloable or even beatable by just a small group then fighting them would feel more epic.

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:18 pm 1. Touching or speaking to someone while in stealth
It doesn't matter how high your Hide or Move Silently skills are. If you do any of the above you are giving your position away, and should immediately drop Stealth to become visible. If you want to speak, while hidden, then make us of the invisibility spell. If you want to touch someone, for whatever reason, while hidden, then you are out of luck as neither Stealth, Invisibility, or Greater Invisibility allow you to do that without revealing yourself. Greater Invisibility will still give you concealment for its duration after touching someone, but you are still very much visible to everyone around you.

Blackbird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:35 pm

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:18 pm 1. Touching or speaking to someone while in stealth
It doesn't matter how high your Hide or Move Silently skills are. If you do any of the above you are giving your position away, and should immediately drop Stealth to become visible. If you want to speak, while hidden, then make us of the invisibility spell. If you want to touch someone, for whatever reason, while hidden, then you are out of luck as neither Stealth, Invisibility, or Greater Invisibility allow you to do that without revealing yourself. Greater Invisibility will still give you concealment for its duration after touching someone, but you are still very much visible to everyone around you.

This one strikes me as a mechanical limitation. Consider how often in fiction a hidden character signals their compatriots from the shadows either by brushing up against them, making a signal or whispering a message. If you touch someone's shoulder or whisper to them while hidden in the shadows behind them, it doesn't suddenly make you visible to the whole room (which dropping out of stealth mechanically does). It makes the character you touched or whispered to (and perhaps someone else close by) aware of your presence. I think there is a balance to be struck here that depends on players playing their actions appropriately within the context of the scenario. Loudly exclaiming "You can't see me!" from stealth while standing next to a campfire should, as you noted, immediately result in dropping stealth for the character. Sneaking into a bush behind one of the characters around the campfire and whispering "The plan has been executed" definitely should not, though it may provide contextual clues for the other players if the player being whispered to suddenly turns around (or has a conversation with the bush).

zhazz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:18 pm Three things, which I personally find to be a much greater breach of immersion than killing Balors and Dragons before second breakfast, are the following.

1. Touching or speaking to someone while in stealth
It doesn't matter how high your Hide or Move Silently skills are. If you do any of the above you are giving your position away, and should immediately drop Stealth to become visible. If you want to speak, while hidden, then make us of the invisibility spell. If you want to touch someone, for whatever reason, while hidden, then you are out of luck as neither Stealth, Invisibility, or Greater Invisibility allow you to do that without revealing yourself. Greater Invisibility will still give you concealment for its duration after touching someone, but you are still very much visible to everyone around you.

2. Grouping with overtly evil characters
It is a quite common occurence to see groups of characters running around in a group, typically at the Wyverns or Xvarts, and having a great time. Often, though not all the time, such a group has at least one pet-user among them. Someone who runs around with a demon/devil/fiend in tow, or a skeleton/zombie/ghoul/ghast. Yet the character doing such is not confronted. Granted, all the characters could be either Evil or Neutral (who rightly might not care), but that is quite rare in my experience. No one calls the character out, and if anyone actually does, the others are, also in my experience, rather quick to defend the evil-doer. And it might not even be pets, but rather it is a spell slinger, who utilize spells with the Evil descriptor, which at least one of the other casters in the group should be able to pick up on.

3. Ignoring evil pets
And lastly, tied into the above, but not necessarily wilful association, but rather wilful ignorance, are those who ignore any of the above-mentioned pets. This is most likely to occur at the Wyverns and Xvarts, though it does happen elsewhere too, where players congregate to grind for experience and/or loot. But it also happens when just out travelling, or when RP'ing in uncivilized places (not BG, FAI, etc). I have, on several occasions seen characters run around with an Erinyes (Devil) in tow, when moving from one place to another, with other characters following along. Presumably on their way to a grinding spot, or doing some of the weekly quests.



For 2 and 3 I get that it is sometimes a matter of convenience. There might not be anyone else around to group with to get some safe experience. Or it could be ignorance of the setting, lore, and/or the situation. However, I have seen it so often that I have serious doubts that it could be ignorance in all the cases.

They might not be obvious in their immersion breaking at first glance. Until you play a character, who would actively do something about these evil-doers, and call them out on their evil deeds. Then their cadre of friends completely ignore any and all evidence presented, and either remain impassive or seek to aid the evil-doer. Or some side with you against the evil-doer, and you are left baffled as to why they even decided to group with them in the first place.

Those last two are why I retired my paladin Cane. I simply couldn't deal with the BS to follow, whenever he would confront an evil-doer.

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:55 pm I’ve been dating for awhile is that the truly epic encounters (Balor, pit fiend, dragons, etc.) could be tuned up a bit. If they weren’t soloable or even beatable by just a small group then fighting them would feel more epic.

This would be great. Not sure how to go about it, though. I fully believe that the Balor, Pit Fiend, Dragons, etc. should be encounters on par with a raid boss in World of Warcraft. You need to work together, with several mechanics to overcome, and it being a race against time lest your resources (potions, spells, wards) run out. Sadly I don't think NWN2 can handle that.

I believe the best way to tackle it, as I have stated here and in several other threads, is to make getting there the difficult part, where you need a group of characters. Someone might still be able to solo the boss encounter, but it still took them and three to four other characters a combined effort over a few RL days to get there.