Setting immersion and...things

[Diamore]

No one wants to hear it, but the only way to improve the RP is to have a pre-epic level cap, but have the spawns be uncapped to an extent.

I'm not certain that's needed and any attempt to limit levels will always damage player numbers and impose on those who enjoy that part of playing.

If you really wanted to alter the server to lessen the overall impact of epic levels you would set about re-skinning enemies to fit into the "level 15" by lore idea. Frost Giants into Orcish worshippers of Auril, remove the dragons as enemies in most locations and keep the "least powerful white dragon". Having more humanoid enemies taking the place of some of the more fantastical things would work.

Then leave the dragons, Balors and other CR 16+ nastiness for DM's to spawn (albeit with appropriately scaled up CR) as a major villain or saviour rather than a deity.

Again a lot of work, but doesn't limit the fantasy of the setting or remove the progression that 30 levels allows for. There's an awful lot of strangeness that you can fit into a world based around the halved progression idea which doesn't need to lean on the most fantastical and epic elements. Fey, monstrous creatures and even unusual undead make for great stories without compromising the worldview of those around them.

[gedweyignasia]

If you really wanted to alter the server to lessen the overall impact of epic levels you would set about re-skinning enemies to fit into the "level 15" by lore idea. Frost Giants into Orcish worshippers of Auril, remove the dragons as enemies in most locations and keep the "least powerful white dragon". Having more humanoid enemies taking the place of some of the more fantastical things would work.

Then leave the dragons, Balors and other CR 16+ nastiness for DM's to spawn (albeit with appropriately scaled up CR) as a major villain or saviour rather than a deity.

That's something that would be entirely up to the DM team, but if they asked us to do so, it's possible.

[Thaelis]

I vote for level 16 level cap! (then very slow progression after via daily quest, DM xp etc)

*is immediately lynched by angry mob*

[Galdinao]

I would like to contribute my 2 cents and also use this space to express myself freely as others have done. I do not intend to offend anyone or complain about the players individual RP, but about the behavior of some players. Considering that my profession works with human behavior, I can think of some directions for possible solutions using the Nudging concept from Behavioral Economics (treating the server as an environment), but I intend to reserve that for a future post.

This is my first year at BGTSCC, but I've played on other servers for almost 10 years. My newbie perspective here is that topics 1 and 4 pointed out in the post are primarily responsible for the immersion break. In addition to the fact that the mechanics of NWN2 do not favor the immersion of RP, making most of the immersion a matter of individual responsibility of the players. Each player needs to identify the variables that make him break the immersion, this is a subjective issue, and evade it whenever possible. Perhaps this involves running away from some players or some situations, such as the campfire conversations that have been pointed out. For me, campfires provide the best RP engagements, but also favor an egos competition between players and characters who want to be The One™.

I notice that there is a difficulty in playing a mundane character (low level or level 30, it makes no difference) on a server with many players who want to be The One, demonstrating how important they are, how much lore knowledge they have accumulated and the amount of DM events they participated in. They feel and want to be treated in a special way, and when you play a mundane character, you will fulfill the role of being the audience for these players/characters to feel special. And sometimes it sucks because they feeling special is what breaks the immerson for you.
Playing Lionel here, who always says "I'm just a simple elf", I've been an audience for the ego of many players, and the tendency is for them to exclude you in the future, because you don't want to play the game of egos with them while playing a character mundane. This is one of the reasons that has made me slowly leave the server, as I have always preferred the mundane characters.

The two things I like most here are: the high fantasy world with wonderful lore and the possibility of intrigue RP. As a high fantasy server, players are expected to have a greater tolerance for the amount of epic events happening simultaneously. But the choice to interact with them is individual and not mandatory.
As for intrigue PR, I think it is the point that most affects the behavior of players. I realize that not everyone knows how to differentiate the consequences of an ICly / OOCly intrigue.

Some things I've noticed or experienced here: players using information on alternative characters to annoy other players, alt characters harassing players, OOC aggression for IC reasons, abuse of actions without rolling dice to annoy a character, excluding players from a group / guild / faction without good reason ICly or to flatter someone, be toxic in Discord or in OOC discussions for irrelevant things that happened in game, players who pretend to RP an evil character but remain aggressive and competitive OOC.

Personally, I like to use my character's examine to remind players that I am not my character, I write this in all biographies. Every time I have good RPs I reinforce the behavior of the other player, sending individual messages of thanks for the interaction and treating everyone with great respect OOC, in game or in Discord. I miss this in some players. I think some are hiding in the speech that "OOC messages break immersion" in order to be individualistic and not need to reinforce the sense of community.

To be honest, and with no intention of accusing anyone, I always heard the rumor in the NWN community that BGTSCC was a server where a few groups of players were privileged and closed in their bubbles, without the incentive to interact with new players, or with guilds privileged by DMs.
Perhaps a few players have been historically privileged, or it is all just a rumor, but my experience of 10 months here shows me that there are people who do not accept the way other players choose to play, especially the "loot run", and these players always break my immersion when trying to show how special they are and how many intrigues they are involved at the same time, whether at campfire or FAI. I intend to write about possible solutions in another post.

[izzul]

Play a dwarf and farts every time someone tries to act godlike

*the dwarf seems to non stop farting everytime the other person mention bosslike creatures that he kills*

[zhazz]

It's an issue as old as RP itself. Particularly on private world servers. World of Warcraft even has this issue. Though in that case the issue is mitigated by roleplay servers being separate from regular servers, thus allowing the players on the roleplay servers to experience the numerous kills of a myriad of fantastical monsters in a more sensible way.

BG, however, is not World of Warcraft. It is much too small in comparison to allow a split of the playerbase into RP and regular servers.

My own way of dealing with this issue is to lean on the novels.

In the novels many characters do fantastical things. They kill dragons, balors, and a host of other creatures all by themselves or in small groups. Their exploits are generally not widely known, however, at least not outside the circle of friends they surround themselves with.

Does King Bruenor Battlehammer know that Drizzt has killed a balor? Absolutely. Does the rest of the Companions of the Hall? Absolutely. Does everyone in clan Battlehammer? Unlikely, but there are most likely rumors.

The same extends to our characters. Some friends of our characters know what they did.

Is it reasonable to bring past exploits up in conversation among friends, even when in a public setting? I think it is. Though not for stuff that should remain a secret.

And that is the crux of the problem. When conversing with friends at a public place these topics are likely to crop up. It's part of the usual banter among friends for those characters. Yet the places where characters can sit down to talk on the server are too few, when compared to the vastness of the lands the server depict.

Is there a way to fix it? Not that I know of. Aside from adding in more RP areas, but even that won't remove the issue entirely, just mitigate it somewhat.

The only way I can see this being solved is to make it impossible to solo all of these powerful monsters, and then make quests for them. Quests that go through all the preparation required, with a lot of costs in gold and consumables, taking place over several weeks and thus slowing down the rate of killing to once per RL month per group of 5 characters. Of course the rewards would then have to be adjusted to account for the 100,000 gold or more sunk into the aforementioned preparations.

Such is a huge undertaking by the developers, however, and likely not feasible.

Thus I am back to my original way of dealing with the issue, wherein our characters, unless the Commoner class is picked, are considered comparable to the protagonists of novels. Likely not in terms of power, but at least in terms of exploits.

I also personally consider the Sword Coast on this server to be one in an alternate universe. One where Ao (the Overgod) rolled a dice, and the outcome was that in our universe the Sword Coast is a literal melting pot of strife, where adventurers are born and die. A crucible where only the strong survive, because the entire place has gone mad, and everything is out of proportion. It has become the multiverse equivalent of a Mad Wizard's Maze.

Does that work for everyone? Probably not. But it does for me, and the OP asked how others deal with the issue.

TL;DR:
Our characters are similar to protagonists from the novels, and the Sword Coast on this server is a Mad Wizard's Maze.

[Thaelis]

Personally, I like to use my character's examine to remind players that I am not my character, I write this in all biographies. Every time I have good RPs I reinforce the behavior of the other player, sending individual messages of thanks for the interaction and treating everyone with great respect OOC, in game or in Discord. I miss this in some players. I think some are hiding in the speech that "OOC messages break immersion" in order to be individualistic and not need to reinforce the sense of community.

When I first started playing here it suprised me when people say "Thanks for the RP!". I thought, Huh?! Isn't that what we're all here for? Why do you need to thank me? But actually it's kinda nice, because sometimes the RP might not be cordial...their character might insult, belittle, harass or even attack you, so it's nice to be reminded afterwards that there's no OOC ill-will.

I try to keep Tells to a minimum, but on the other hand using no Tells at all really does just come across as rude or condescending.

Perhaps a few players have been historically privileged, or it is all just a rumor, but my experience of 10 months here shows me that there are people who do not accept the way other players choose to play, especially the "loot run", and these players always break my immersion when trying to show how special they are and how many intrigues they are involved at the same time, whether at campfire or FAI. I intend to write about possible solutions in another post.

I can't really see this at all from my experience on BGTSCC. 9 out of 10 players I've met seem super keen to RP with people they don't know, much more so than my old server where there was a kind of clique of old-guard players who just ignored everyone else and pretended they didn't exist. Then again I've never reached above level 24, so maybe things are different at the top!

[athornforyourheart]

I notice that there is a difficulty in playing a mundane character (low level or level 30, it makes no difference) on a server with many players who want to be The One, demonstrating how important they are, how much lore knowledge they have accumulated and the amount of DM events they participated in. They feel and want to be treated in a special way, and when you play a mundane character, you will fulfill the role of being the audience for these players/characters to feel special. And sometimes it sucks because they feeling special is what breaks the immerson for you.
Playing Lionel here, who always says "I'm just a simple elf", I've been an audience for the ego of many players, and the tendency is for them to exclude you in the future, because you don't want to play the game of egos with them while playing a character mundane. This is one of the reasons that has made me slowly leave the server, as I have always preferred the mundane characters.

This is well worded and I agree. This here is the true end result for a lot of players because of this type of egocentric role play. I feel the issue stems more from just changing a few visuals and mechanics. It stems to the player's themselves who play these types of characters who absolutely NEED to push the limits for self glorification. Yes, the game allows us to fight a Balor then quickly teleport right outside a giant frost keep to slay a Frost Giant but these shouldn't be taken as "every day activities." It's the responsibility and quite frankly, the rationality of the player to be a bit more sparring with what's actually possible in PnP (more realistic approach) rather than in game.

[Steve]

Here is my response: all valid observations and comments, but it’s just a game.

And, somewhat unfortunately, this Server has repeatedly installed, campaigned on and subjected beyond Epic NPCs and storylines that cannot be ignored in the “minds” of the Player Characters themselves.

Thus, when you do reach “epic” Character status, where do you go from there?

Literally, the Sandbox that is the Server is too big. One cannot apply guidance and management that covers all aspects, ESPECIALLY the RL player aspect—the Server is an open environment that rarely closes its doors to a player(s).

One needs to think about this: would you invite just anyone off the DnD street to sit in on your PnP game? I’d argue no, at least not until you knew more about the Player. Yet on BGTSCC, just walking the Tradeway exposes a PC and thus the Player, to a variety of RP interpretations that, at best, is a 50/50 split that’ll match your own preference.

It is just a game. Find pleasure in it where you can, and where you don’t, walk away. The Server has been dealing with the issues stated in the OP for at least 10 years now—my own tenure—and little to nothing has been done to change it. I don’t expect anything ever will, because as c2k mentioned, it would require such a major shakeup that none on Staff or Admins are willing to make (because as was also said, changes would have a large chance of killing the Server (though I personally doubt it)).

The best advice I read in this thread so far is the one where you, the player, find a small group of like minded players and form a PC group that can experience what the Server has to offer. When you run into problematic issues as mentioned above, then IC excuse yourself—or OOC if necessary—and move on to keep enjoying yourself before you have to log off.

That said, if on the slim, slim, half-of-slim chance the staff of BGTSCC would want to “tone down” the Beyond Epic that it finds itself in, and essentially makes a reset of sorts, I’d be the first one to step up to support it and do my part to keep the Server alive for many more years.

[gedweyignasia]

If there's any "tone-down" of epic content (in lore and appearance), I'd strongly advocate not retconning server history but instead just letting it remain history; great events transpired in the past, the heroes of today are of a more everyday stature. They'll do great things and leave their mark on the world, but they probably won't meet gods and go dragon hunting every weekend. Just my 2 cents as a player.

[izzul]

the only thing breaking my immersion is

-admitting having relation/ties with alt PC (PC A saying that he is a subordinate of his alt)

-does not follow the city lore (openly announcing their affiliation opposite of the city affiliation)

example "my PC is a Helmite and comes to Darkhold. he joins the campfire in front of Darkhold and non stop chatting about how Helm is great and mention that his cousin is the leader of Helm temple (the cousin is his alt PC)" -THIS IS BREAKING MY IMMERSION!

[gotesu]

If you really wanted to alter the server to lessen the overall impact of epic levels you would set about re-skinning enemies to fit into the "level 15" by lore idea. Frost Giants into Orcish worshippers of Auril, remove the dragons as enemies in most locations and keep the "least powerful white dragon". Having more humanoid enemies taking the place of some of the more fantastical things would work.

Then leave the dragons, Balors and other CR 16+ nastiness for DM's to spawn (albeit with appropriately scaled up CR) as a major villain or saviour rather than a deity.

That's something that would be entirely up to the DM team, but if they asked us to do so, it's possible.

+1

As a personal preference I would love to see all epic dungeon monsters being turned into something like "more powerful orcs" etc (alot of low CR creatures lore wise to make it diverse), just like our lvl 30 characters are nothing more than "more powerful humans/elves/whatever". saving all the big "spectacular" things to either some nigh impossible dungeon (which would require an army of lvl 30 PCs to face, just for the sake of challenge and reward) and to DM events, or some scripted very rare out of the blue random encounter of something terrifying ravaging the country side.

[Steve]

If there's any "tone-down" of epic content (in lore and appearance), I'd strongly advocate not retconning server history but instead just letting it remain history; great events transpired in the past, the heroes of today are of a more everyday stature. They'll do great things and leave their mark on the world, but they probably won't meet gods and go dragon hunting every weekend. Just my 2 cents as a player.

Excellent idea!

[Valefort]

This is definitely interesting and doable given a bit of time.

[zhazz]

I don't know if I agree with tuning things down. Maybe remove the Balor, Pit Fiend, and Dragons from the picture, but other than that?

I'd honestly be bored if, over time, a change is made so that all that is found to fight against are orcs, goblins, bandits, kobolds, gnolls, etc in various CRs.