New Race: The Warforged

[Zanniej]

While I'm sure we can come up with lore-fitting reasons to write the race into our specific lore, I feel like a large majority of players would prefer not to include this race.

As such, while I do think that the race is well thought out, it is probably not viable to include it in our server lore, simply because more people seem to be against than there are people for.

[kitteninablender]

Alright. Laying down some lore to help out my buddy Dae. Warning: Incoming Rant and Salim El-Faddir's favored spell: WALL OF TEXT!!

The Gondsmen, of the Techsmith of Gond, are called "Gondsmen" by mistake. The actual Techsmith's of Gond are known as "Tinkerers", "Makers", or even "High Artificier's" based upon their rank in the clergy.

Gondsmen are the actual Robotic Sentry created by the Techsmith's of Gond as their personal bodyguards. The Bodies of the Techsmith themselves are entirely nonmagical, in fact. Constructed entirely from gears. Pistons. Sprockets. Their designs can vary based upon the regionality of the Techsmith or the natural available materials to the Techsmith at the time of the Gondsman's construction.

In fact, the very first Gondsman built by Techsmiths of Gond is very rarely perfect. In fact: It is very often an automata made of junk or other such readily and hastily scrawled together equipment.

As the old Gondsman becomes obsolete....it becomes sacrificed to the Temple of Gond. It literally becomes Scrap metal. To be used by other Techsmiths in the creation of their craft. Because all of the metal in a church of Gond...is shared. Just like their technology.

And because Techsmiths of Gond create Golems as they would create their own children...just as an Engineer would create his first robot..he sacrifices him back to his God. The greatest sacrifice that a Techsmith of Gond can make. His Child. To his God.

It is this magical, empathic link that enables the Techsmith of Gond to telepathically command his Gondsman. It is that telepathic, empathic link. The same empathic link that a father has to a child. The same empathic link a mother to her baby.

A GONDSMAN is in fact that. A Robot. An artificially constructed machine designed to enact a specific function as mandated by it's design and it's "Program." By a literal definition of the word.

The thing is: The Empathic Bond that the Techsmith of Gond has with his Gondsman is the thing that allows him to control it, command it, upgrade it at whim...because the Gondsman can, essentially, reprogram it on the fly. It's what allows the Gondsman, if enchanted with a Rune of Magic Mouth or given a magical voice box..which is an actual item in the same book it's in. You can put a magic voice box in them. It's a wondrous item. And it can sound like pretty much whatever. So, basically...your Gondsman, with a Magic Voice Box, is MF'in Bumblebee....haha. It's weird. But it's Canon. Just the way I like it.

But this is why the Gondsman is not a true Golem. Which is why Craft Construct is not required to make it. It's a Wondrous Item. It can be made with such. You can build a Gondsman with the Craft Wondrous Item feat.

The issue is, however: Without actually WORSHIPPING GOND you do not gain the spiritual and empathic link that Gondsman possess to allow them to control it telepathically. Because it is literally [i}SOUL BOUND[/i]. Much like an Ancestral Daisho, as possessed by a Samurai. It would therefore be capable of only being made ONCE. Follow a SINGLE[/i] "Program." And could not be further upgraded without being completely rebuilt by the Techsmith.

The Techsmith can in fact build a Gondsman for another person. And they do. It's one of the ways that they gain FUNDS.

The thing is...because of the fact that it's not telepathically connected to the Gondsman through his faith and his bind with the Great Tinkerer...

...it is not a GONDSMAN. IT is simply a ROBOT. As defined by it's literal meaning: A machine. Designed to perform a task on, on its own, as mandated by its design and programming."

**AHEM!**

A Warforged, however, is not a Robot. But it IS a construct. It is a construct because it is an artificial being with moving parts that are constructed from base materials. But it's not a Robot because of the fact that it is not autonomous. It possesses an actual free-will. It contains, essentially, what the Transformer's might call a "Spark." Which was created by the Creator Forges during the Great War of Eberron. These are actual souls. And, thus, actual free wills.

The life force, of the Creation Forges, took the shape of blood. And that blood is the blood that flows through the veins of Warforged, because Warforged do possess a working circulatory system. And a heart. Which "pumps" this "Blue blood" through their body.

For you Detroit: Become Human fans, yes. The Blue Blood, of the Androids: Was ripped off from the Warforged of Eberron. It's true. The Thorium, their Blue Blood...yeah. And if you ask the writing team from Detroit, and I've met one or two of them at shows, they'll tell ya...lol.

This blood can be spilled. This blood can be drained. It's why they are susceptible to critical hits. It's why they are susceptible to sneak attacks. Their minds are awakened...and thus they are susceptible to mind-affecting effects. They just get a bonus to them because their minds aren't fully developed yet, like ours, and can sort of "Shrug off" the effects. Furthermore, because they have free will and intuition. They are not merely obeying programming, like a true Golem, who obeys a series of routines and subroutines that are designed, and usually etched into the Golem upon construction. The Golem is then animated with an Elemental Spirit, which traps the spirit into a Corporeal body.

This is the reason that Druids despise Golems. They are not unnatural because they are machines. Machines are made of natural parts, after all. Druids hate Golems...because they trap the souls of Elemental Spirits in order to power them, in order to power the Arcane Sigils that make up their decorum. But these spell runes, just like Thayan Spell Tattoos that tie them to the protective wards of the Enclave, are essentially "Programs" that direct the Golem.

The reason being: That's what spell circles are. They are, essentially, Programs. For magic. Written code. To execute a task. It's called Calligromancy.

Warforged, RP'd properly, are not Robots.

Rp'ed properly...they are newborn children. In adult bodies. Just now learning their place in a brave, scary world full of monsters and other ape-like creatures they do not understand...and will always think of them as soulless machines. No matter how many times they prove they have one. Because they do. It was created, in a burst of magical energy, in the Creation Forges of Eberron during the Great War.

But Lolth, after her name was traversed to another world by a messenger through the Demonweb pits, which connects to many realities, sought to pull through these Warforged and turn them into an army of mindless slaves against her enemies: Many of which were Necromancers.

Lolth figured that having an army of creatures greatly immune to the effects of necromancy would give her a sizable advantage in the war against her enemies and she pulled them through the Demonweb pits.

The thing is, Lolth ATTEMPTED to pull through TENS. OF THOUSANDS. And the others, as they were being "Sucked" into the Demonweb pits, well...they fell through the cracks.

They fell through all the cracks that lead into other worlds. Other realities. Darksun. Greyhawk. Faerun.

It's this explanation that WotC gave for, essentially...how you can introduce Warforged to ANY CAMPAIGN. More importantly. To any TIME PERIOD. Because the Demonweb Pits, just like the portals of Pazuzal, the first layer of the Abyss...can also touch different TIME PERIODS.

The Demonweb Pits connect to ALL Dimensions. The Far Realm. Sigil. Oerth. OUR Earth. That's where the name for "Oerth" came for, by the way. "It's OUR EARTH, we'll say it how we want!"

Saint Sollars, of the Ilmateri, is from Texas. OUR TEXAS. Look it up. He calls Orcus "The Meanest Hombre West of the Pecos." Saint Sollars got to Faerun...through the Demonweb Pits. And, quite literally, "Took a wrong turn in Albuquerque." A line from Johnny Cash. Oh..and he had a six-shooter. And conjures magic beer...lol.

Anyhoo:

I Hope this wall of text helps, Dae.

[Thaelis]

Sorry mate but I think I made my save against Wall of Text.

Gondsmen being 100% non-magical is ridiculous.

Even a simple command like "Go over to that tree" requires complex decision making and fine motor control, i.e. either magic or a modern processor chip. If Gondsmen are 100% non-magical then there's no reason Baldur's Gate and Nashkel shouldn't have fiber-optic cables laid between them. There's also no reason you shouldn't be able to hop on a jumbo jet from BG to Lantan for a shopping trip or that the Dukes can't nuke hostile dragons into submission. After all they already have a processor chip much more powerful than what is required for an ICBM.

I don't care whether it's canon and comes from the Holy player's handbook itself. No microprocessor chips in fantasy games thanks.

[Kitunenotsume]

I merit that the Gondar (proper term for a devotee of Gond) tend to be inclined to nonmagical artifice.

However, it is also canonical that most of their more advanced creations are blends of magic and artifice.
Techsmith is a class that requires spellcasting.
The effects may bypass spell-resistance, but there is usally the implication that a measure of alchemical or magical enhancement to the basic property.
As such, Gondsmen are golems. They are substantially artifice, but their animation is produced by the investment of magic and personal essence by the creator (In the form of class levels, as opposed to XP for a standard golem construction).

A similar consideration is the Lantanese Portal - the Gondar sincerely wish to create a nonmagical portal, but have not, and use a lot of magical bootstrapping for the artificed and mechanical components; the device is therefore both mechanical and magical in nature.
Please note, the Lantanese Portal is post-TOT lore. However, for that matter, so is Smokepowder (Lantan was given the secret in 1538, though Kara Tur had it for much longer).

I personally disagree with the inclusion of Warforged as a race, on the in-character principles that
1) such constructions are not actually under the capabilities of the Gondar to mass produce and maintain (each individual maintains 1 at most)
2) that the inclusion of a sentient golem population before the introduction of nonsentient golems is in contradiction to practicality,
and 3) creating and releasing such constructions to the greater world is a strategic blunder of considerable scale given the canonical backlash against lesser inventions like Smokepowder in the greater setting, and given that gods have literally retconned considerable invention before.
I also disagree with the inclusion mechanically, given the number of purported but nonfunctional features that already exist, without the inclusion of more possibilities for bugs, issues, and imbalance.

[Steve]

Warforged exist in the Monster Manual III of D&D 3.5e. Thus, in 3.5e, they are a monster race (as in not a Player Character race).

Playing Warforged—as a guide and as guildelines for what I assume is a Player Character—is printed in Dragon #364, but that issue is for D&D 4e, which is not the BGTSCC timeline nor Rule Set.

I think it's altogether possible, right now, to roll up a 6 CHA human, don a full plate and full-faces helmet, and with a supreme lack of force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness, a player can emulate a golem-esque character no problemo.

Just that they are not a golem, but a Human.

[Zkenic]

Ok went and did a read of the prestige class from Faiths and Pantheons. The original prestige class also requires casting and to be a Gond worshiper. As is noted in the flavor text, Techsmith's make golems, which require magical means but once completed are no longer subject to things like anti-magic field and dispel magic. The flavor text also describes the Gondsman as a "golemlike construct". As to the magical or non-magical nature of the Gondsman ability Techsmith's obtain, the ability is listed as extraordinary, meaning that it is immune to dispel and anti-magic fields. At the same time, in the text it notes that the Gondsman and the Techsmith share a bond similar to a sorcerer and her familiar and it grants telepathic communication between the two, which is listed as a supernatural ability (which is in some ways magical and cannot be dispelled but is supressed under anti-magic fields).

My opinion on the matter. The Gondsman, like any construct (literally, its creature type is construct), requires magic to be created but once created is in a sense divorced from the magic of its creation like any other golem. The reason for the (EX) for the Gondsman ability is to head of rules lawyering about anti-magic fields deactivating the golem creature. The familiar link shows that the golem is not some 100% non-magical invented machine.

[matelener]

In pnp any high level cleric/wizard can be a warforged factory:

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/spell- ... index.html

[Kitunenotsume]

In pnp any high level cleric/wizard can be a warforged factory:

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/spell- ... index.html

That spell requires creating the construct first which takes 1-5 months of work, being a 17th+ caster, and then paying an extra 5000 XP.
In P&P, none of those are exactly trivial.

Amusingly, it also will not work on any standard Golems, because it allows spell resistance - and normal golems are immune.

[Thaelis]

My opinion on the matter. The Gondsman, like any construct (literally, its creature type is construct), requires magic to be created but once created is in a sense divorced from the magic of its creation like any other golem. The reason for the (EX) for the Gondsman ability is to head of rules lawyering about anti-magic fields deactivating the golem creature. The familiar link shows that the golem is not some 100% non-magical invented machine.

These are my thoughts exactly. Just like any other golem it can't be dispelled, anti-magicked or even disjoined, but that doesn't mean it's non-magical. Dragons, pixies, nishrus, demons are all magical creatures but they don't become lifeless the moment they walk into an anti-magic field.

[kitteninablender]

In pnp any high level cleric/wizard can be a warforged factory:

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/spell- ... index.html

That spell requires creating the construct first which takes 1-5 months of work, being a 17th+ caster, and then paying an extra 5000 XP.
In P&P, none of those are exactly trivial.

Amusingly, it also will not work on any standard Golems, because it allows spell resistance - and normal golems are immune.

Incorrect. The reason for this, actually, is the same reason that Drow do not check for Spell Resistance whenever you cast a friendly spell upon them such as a Cure spell or a Bull Strength. The reason being is because the spell contains the subtext (Harmless.) This is the same reason you can cast Bull Strength on your Golem.

The fact that the spell's duration is "Instantaneous" instead of "Permanent" is also a factor in this, as spells with Instantaneous duration lose their magic after the spell's incursion. Just like the activation of the Golem itself. As mentioned before by Thaelis. And no spell with an Instantaneous duration, such as Dispel Magic or Mordenkainen's Disjunction, allows for Spell Resistance usually. The Golem, however, would normally be immune. Except, again, the spell has the harmless descriptor. And the golem cannot choose for the spell to not effect it. It's not sentient.

What this means is that the spell only allows for spell resistance if the target of the spell chooses for the spell to be subject to it's spell resistance. And as the Golem itself is not sentient YET, before the casting, the Golem is subject to the spell. And because the Golem, at the time, is an object it furthermore cannot make a Will Save against a Harmless spell as it is A) Unconscious and B) An Object, and thus cannot choose for the spell not to affect it. WotC actually did an artcle on this a few years ago, that's how I know this.

[Kitunenotsume]

Incorrect. The reason for this, actually, is the same reason that Drow do not check for Spell Resistance whenever you cast a friendly spell upon them such as a Cure spell or a Bull Strength. The reason being is because the spell contains the subtext (Harmless.) This is the same reason you can cast Bull Strength on your Golem.

The fact that the spell's duration is "Instantaneous" instead of "Permanent" is also a factor in this, as spells with Instantaneous duration lose their magic after the spell's incursion. Just like the activation of the Golem itself. As mentioned before by Thaelis. And no spell with an Instantaneous duration, such as Dispel Magic or Mordenkainen's Disjunction, allows for Spell Resistance usually. The Golem, however, would normally be immune. Except, again, the spell has the harmless descriptor. And the golem cannot choose for the spell to not effect it. It's not sentient.

What this means is that the spell only allows for spell resistance if the target of the spell chooses for the spell to be subject to it's spell resistance. And as the Golem itself is not sentient YET, before the casting, the Golem is subject to the spell. And because the Golem, at the time, is an object it furthermore cannot make a Will Save against a Harmless spell as it is A) Unconscious and B) An Object, and thus cannot choose for the spell not to affect it. WotC actually did an artcle on this a few years ago, that's how I know this.

Golems are creatures, and therefore an active golem is neither unconscious nor an object. A person in command of a golem could perhaps order their golem to lower spell resistance at the cost of one standard action per round (basically disabling the golem), but there is no reason to think they would do so otherwise, and will not permit vulnerability to all effects.

Not all golems have Spell Resistance, specific varieties have "Immunity to Magic(Ex)" providing immunity to "Most magical and supernatural effects" in addition to Spell Immunity to any spell that permits spell resistance, barring the magic that explicitly functions differently. However, as Spell Immunity points to the Spell Resistance entry, it is explicit that similar rules apply:
Spell resistance requires a standard action to take and keep down. Per P&P RAW, a Drow actually does need to take an action to lower Spell Resistance to receive a healing spell. The fact that NWN2 ignores this is a matter of mechanical and gameplay contrivance, as you cannot mechanically take the standard action required to lower spell resistance. Keeping spell resistance lowered is also a standard action for every round you keep it down - IE it is a deliberate matter of will to keep one's spell resistance lowered. The keyword "(harmless)" does not exempt the requirement to take a standard action to lower SR, even from healing or buff spells.

The Instantaneous duration matters - as you point out - only when the target is subjected to the spell when cast. Which, given the target of the spell is "One construct" must be the case by definition, so spell resistance applies if the target has it and isn't explicitly lowering their resistances. The spell does not have the "(object)" keyword, and also by definition invalidates the theory that a construct is an object, because if they were then by definition constructs would not be a valid target. Since a golem is destroyed when reduces to 0 HP and immune to nonlethal damage and Sleep effects, they cannot become unconscious, ruling out the other bypass.

A Shield Guardian or Gondsman does not have Spell Immunity, and can receive spells cast upon it. An Iron Golem has Magic Immunity and will not receive spells cast upon it unless explicitly exempted or having been ordered to disable their combat ability to do so, and may be immune regardless to effects that do not permit spell-resistance (like Breath Weapons (Su).


References:
When Spell Resistance Applies
On the terms "(object)" and "(harmless)" [See "Spell Resistance" at bottom of page]


In any regard, this conversation is substantially oblique to the conversation primary topic.
For clarity, I still do not support the inclusion.