could we get more

[crimsonrain15]

crimsonrain15 it was not the White dragon i have in mind it just show that you dont know the whole server

I don't know the whole server, nor have I ever made a statement saying otherwise. In fact, I only know about 70% of the server. I don't go places to go places, so when I do go somewhere new, its an experience for me I'm not likely to forget. In fact, I've never been to the white dragon either, I was just using it as a reference to a place I've heard is tough.

[tankteddy]

Not so much Increase Epic gear, as much as I would love some myself ((best Item I have is maybe +4 dodge boots or my +4 breastplate with dragonbreath once per day.))

Try removing junk items like empty wine bottles and ales. less junk means more usable/sell-able items. I don't mind finding arrows and such. saves me gold. but finding rags/+1 halfplate/ or usable only by lawful boot of nothing are just waste of inventory space. Sure +1 halfplate sells for like 500gold but the weight for a mage or rogue is to heavy to carry and sell.

[Mendoza]

Try removing junk items like empty wine bottles and ales. less junk means more usable/sell-able items.

This is an awesome idea, and I'm surprised no one had thought of it before!

Remove all the junk and the stuff that sells for 1gp (arrows, bolts, bullets) and slightly increase the % of some of the nicer equipment and I really think the issue could be a lot closer to being balanced fairly

[crimsonrain15]

But then where will I find my ale and empty steins?

I second the idea. Its at least a step in the right direction I think

[roke42]

And where should we get our spoons then? I think we need a shop for such then!

[Lockonnow]

and all the bad items we dont need

[tankteddy]

And where should we get our spoons then? I think we need a shop for such then!

There is a shop for such. It's in BG across from Maltz

Also someone has thought of my idea before so I can't really claim it.

[seawied]

Try removing junk items like empty wine bottles and ales. less junk means more usable/sell-able items.

This is an awesome idea, and I'm surprised no one had thought of it before!

Remove all the junk and the stuff that sells for 1gp (arrows, bolts, bullets) and slightly increase the % of some of the nicer equipment and I really think the issue could be a lot closer to being balanced fairly

This will create inflation, and will exacerbate the wealth gap further. Your items that you find now that sell for a few thousand on consignment will cease to sell. Because gold is more common, price per decent items will increase, or gold will no longer be relevant altogether.

I think all items should sell for 1 gp minimum, but just having better items spawn more often will cause a lot of problems.

[Calodan]

Everybody talking about a video game like it is a real country and their wealth is real.....

We sure do not want any wealth gaps in a game.....BERNIE SANDERS FOR DUKE!!

Gold is plenty relevant. In fact I have been using enormous amounts of gold for many things for over a year now. DMs do in fact respond to it if you put in the time and are patient with a bit of politeness about you.

As far as items go I know there are at least two new NPC merchants getting ready to go in with some very unique items that your gold can buy. These are not your typical items either they are high end items to bring the item gap down a bit. (Lets be honest this is the real issue. It is a war of the haves and have not.....)

Which BTW the community can help along by continuing to request they get in and being positive towards those that are volunteering to put this place together for us.

^^^That statement comes from a former malcontent who has taken the time to hear the other side and then try it....Guess what it works! It really is true you do catch more flies with honey!!!

[Steve]

A RIG only a mother could love....

[Calen]

There are two 'problems' with the current loot system.

The first one:

It's a medium RP server with mvp content designed in such a way that they favor powerbuilds, in some way the MVP content feels a lot like a MMO design.
The power build rule is actually making a lot of mediocre/rp builds even worse, and it hardly bothers the strong classes.
This is why I never got why there isn't a free character rebuild NPC when content is designed like this.

Power builds and by default strong classes will have access to more chest and can solo run these places.
This isn't technically a 'loot problem' or even a 'design problem' , it is simply how it is.
If you want gold/items you make one, if you make an RP build or a less optimal build well tough luck.

On my druid for example I could do loot runs and pretty much run around everywhere.
Gold and items were never an issue and I was a lot faster than most groups.


While on my caster palemaster I'm doing everything at a snail speed and pretty much can't access any chests placed in areas with transition points (summons don't follow).
Keep in mind it isn't even the worst build out there since unlike some other less optimal classes my PC's chance of dying is quite low.


Simply put if I want gold/items I need to group up.


The second problem


Chests rewards from low level areas seem to be more rewarding than the high level ones, aside from some specific zones.

Maybe I'm unlucky or maybe I do not spend enough time grinding for a medium rp server.
But I'm pretty much wearing the same items I had around level 7, and I'm level 20 now.

I haven't found anything remotely worth while from high level chests.
We're talking about +1 items, empty steins and a potion of resistance.
In fact I've gotten better items ((including +3 items)) from the low level areas like orcs and gnolls.
Yet I cannot go to these area's since I can't loot the chests anymore.
Next to that a lot of monsters simply drop junk, which I need to make campfires for to delete since it's heavy junk.

There isn't a real concept of risk vs reward when it comes to loot drops.



Now should any of this be changed?

I don't remember the server ever being different than this, so I am inclined to say no.
If you want items and gold you make a nice second character and power build, roll a druid/cleric/favored soul or melee wizard and go solo.
Treat it more as a Diablo/MMO like game with some RP and go out on your own and well have fun.

You'll have your RP character and your grind one.
You could also combine it and just RP while having a powerbuild.


That said I've seen some good examples on other servers how to tackle the loot problem.

- A chest would generate loot for every one and could be looted by every one, also being in a party was more rewarding than solo grinding when it came to chests.
Simply put there was no benefit of going solo at all.

- The server allowed any type of build, it just accepted that some classes are grossly overpowered.
How ever there was no need to make the rest weaker because of it.

- Difficulty was scaled towards normal builds, though there were quite a lot of mobs.
Monsters also dropped a decent amount of loot.
But again if you made a powerbuild cleric you could do it all on your own, but mind you it is no different here.

- Higher level areas dropped better items.

- It had no odd transition points, which are made here to avoid exploiting.
From a RP perspective it is just odd that

A: A monster can't follow you
B: You click one and before you can act you get bombed by some high level spell
C: Summons can't follow which is hard to RP
D: You can't spot through listen/spot if there is anything.



Some changes would make it better but in the end it is what it is.
Even with some odd designs the server is a lot of fun.

[Invoker]

Hi Calen,

very good, detailed feedback. Just a couple of things, for your reference:

There are two 'problems' with the current loot system.

The first one:

The power build rule is actually making a lot of mediocre/rp builds even worse, and it hardly bothers the strong classes.

Actually, 1 SD dip is different from 3 SD dip, for instance (power dip). 1 or 2 (if you need Evasion still) Ro dip would be enough for any PB, while 3 Ro dip is in fact enforced. I think mediocre and strong builds are interested by this aspect in exactly the same way. RP builds aren't necessarily mediocre, by the way. RP builds can be extremely strong.

On my druid for example I could do loot runs and pretty much run around everywhere.
Gold and items were never an issue and I was a lot faster than most groups.
While on my caster palemaster I'm doing everything at a snail speed and pretty much can't access any chests placed in areas with transition points (summons don't follow).
Keep in mind it isn't even the worst build out there since unlike some other less optimal classes my PC's chance of dying is quite low.

This is also very odd. On my caster palemaster, I am not only immortal, but I systematically destroy content at a speed your druid can never keep up with, and I most certainly can loot chests anytime, anywhere if I so desire. Tested and true.

Seems like a matter of perspective.

The second problem


Chests rewards from low level areas seem to be more rewarding than the high level ones, aside from some specific zones.

It's a feeling, since high end items drop in high end areas. You haven't been lucky yet.

Now should any of this be changed?

- A chest would generate loot for every one and could be looted by every one, also being in a party was more rewarding than solo grinding when it came to chests.
Simply put there was no benefit of going solo at all.

This is already happening. In place. Right now. And working.

- The server allowed any type of build, it just accepted that some classes are grossly overpowered.
How ever there was no need to make the rest weaker because of it.

Many builds believed to be overpowered, in fact, aren't. Many build people don't believe in are absolute powerhouses. This is largely due to the fact people can't play this game (not a competitive game, so nobody bothers with that, since mechanics are scarcely relevant with respect to the RP aspect of it).

- Difficulty was scaled towards normal builds, though there were quite a lot of mobs.

BG isn't a very hard server to play on, overall, although I realize "normal" and "not very hard" are relative concepts.

- Higher level areas dropped better items.

Already in place, right now. Good luck!

Even with some odd designs the server is a lot of fun.

Nice to hear. Have fun, and happy gaming!

[Mac]

(not a competitive game, so nobody bothers with that, since mechanics are scarcely relevant with respect to the RP aspect of it).

I read comments like this a lot and it is simply not true. If it were true then posts like this one would not have 71 replies and 1335 views. There seems to be some strange stigma about competitive game play. I don't see why? When we see some other toon kicking butt in PvE or PvP sometimes we might say to ourselves I want to kick butt like that to. If someone is showing off a great sword we could say I want a sword even better than that. If some one has X-Millions of gold coins in there bank account we might say, I want more coins than he has. "With respect to the RP aspect of it" If your RP is to be a craftsmen or beggar (nothing wrong with that BTW) then maybe you have a less competitive build than the person who wants to be the servers greatest fighter. But there is clearly a competitive side to this game and how we play it, what's wrong with that? ...Pardon the tirade...

Also!

We sure do not want any wealth gaps in a game.....BERNIE SANDERS FOR DUKE!!

LOL!

[Invoker]

But there is clearly a competitive side to this game and how we play it, what's wrong with that? ...Pardon the tirade...

No need to be sorry, it's no "tirade" at all. Just an honest question.

The short answer to that is, you play the wrong game to go for competition. When you play competitive games, and you are successful, you notice a certain aspect to them: they're mechanically very fair (aside from the noobs screaming "OP everything I don't play!!", cause they're shit at the game, so it's mainly frustration speaking...).

D&D isn't mechanically fair, it's not designed to be, and not meant to be. So is NWN2.

RP-wise, nothing you said matters: you can RP an amazing fighter or mage even if technically you get destroyed by the Dracolich or the Balor...after all, that doesn't disqualify the notion. Likewise, you can have "RP wealth" after DM events and plotlines, even if you're mechanically broke.

This has nothing to do with competition. It's cooperative storytelling.

[Mac]

Well said.

D&D at its best is "cooperative storytelling" no doubt about that.