Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Face wrote:Well some times people can be whiny you and me included im sure
And whats wrong with it when some one is telling us to shut up when we are whiny?

*Gows back to his childhood with a smile* I remember falling of my bike as a kid and busting my chin open...
My mom gave me a kiss cleaned it but when i kept crying she told me to grow up and stop whining.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Stop whining you big baby. I am deeply offended by the fact that you had a loving mother that gave you a kiss. Not all of us as privileged as you.

Yes my mom is great

we know why it is so quiet every time we have to download 1400gb tha twe dont like

When people bring up issues with DMs that they could solve themselves, or when they bring up none issues (BS issues, as I mentioned before), it does display a lack of respect and/or empathy for DMs. DMs have limited time, and they have even less time when they need to deal with every moaning kid on the block. This means that meaningless complaints actually do real harm to the server and its community, by draining DMs and staff of time/energy.

So if not to help the playerbase grow up and learn to solve their own issues without running to their DM, not indulging them would also help the staff in that they would have more time to deal with other, more pressing issues.

Regarding cliques, which a couple people brought up, I think that does a lot of harm for the server as well. Heck, I'm guilty of that mentality myself. I often log in, and when I don't see someone I recognize I just say "screw it" and log out to play some other game. Its at its worse when I am burned out, I'd say. And it really gets worse when the server is as stagnant as it is now when it comes to plot/guild activity. Though, those last two are other issues that could stand addressing as well. BG definitely is one of the worse servers I've played on, so the issue isn't a universal one. Haven's community is fairly welcoming, as is Sigil's. DB's community (back in the day, and still now a-bit smaller) is as well. BG feels more closed off, and harder to integrate oneself with by contrast.

It could be because its too large of a server (physical space) and due to that everyone is more spread out (especially with our lower population). That is an issue we could solve (and it would solve a couple other issues along the way), but it seems both the staff and the playerbase don't want such an overhaul so we just have to work with what we have. One central hub tends to work better for integrating oneself into the server (as was done in ToA/PoS), and it works fairly well at that. It also makes people more liable to bump into each other, even with a smaller population. With a small population and a large server, it tends to be harder to organically bump into people.

metaquad4 wrote: It could be because its too large of a server (physical space) and due to that everyone is more spread out (especially with our lower population). That is an issue we could solve (and it would solve a couple other issues along the way), but it seems both the staff and the playerbase don't want such an overhaul so we just have to work with what we have. One central hub tends to work better for integrating oneself into the server (as was done in ToA/PoS), and it works fairly well at that. It also makes people more liable to bump into each other, even with a smaller population. With a small population and a large server, it tends to be harder to organically bump into people.

Kind of agree with this.
Roleplay wise, there should be HEAPS of excitement and activity around.... Baldur's Gate. But there's not.
Ironic that it's the name of the server (queue link to other thread with funny alternative names).
Everyone's clinging around FAI. And sporadic occasions of persons in Soubar, Bere and Nash. Why?... Waiting for an adventure party to go exploring/hunting/grinding etc, most likely.
Why aren't they waiting at BG? It has the same features as FAI, low level to high level hunting within 1-3 maps range. Campfire RP opportunity. NPC Shopping and Storage. Quest handouts.
I'm not sure what the answer is.

Where is the bell curve sitting for Highest Percentage of Character Level distribution of logged in players? Around the CL 8-12 range maybe? Might explain why most of the population hangs around FAI and not BG, as they are in the 'development' phase. And most of the level appropriate development areas is around there.

Sorry if this seems sideways. Just your quote caught a theory I had bouncing around the head and I decided to write it down.

electric mayhem wrote: Kind of agree with this.
Roleplay wise, there should be HEAPS of excitement and activity around.... Baldur's Gate. But there's not.
Ironic that it's the name of the server (queue link to other thread with funny alternative names).
Everyone's clinging around FAI. And sporadic occasions of persons in Soubar, Bere and Nash. Why?... Waiting for an adventure party to go exploring/hunting/grinding etc, most likely.
Why aren't they waiting at BG? It has the same features as FAI, low level to high level hunting within 1-3 maps range. Campfire RP opportunity. NPC Shopping and Storage. Quest handouts.
I'm not sure what the answer is.

It has been discussed many times over the years. There are many factors that play in to why people stick to the FAI rather than Baldur's Gate. The three most important ones, I think, are these:

Convenience. It is effectively in the middle of most of the low-to-mid level areas, as well as close to many of the most popular looting areas. It is a zone that the looters and the grinders eventually will have to pass through from one loot area to another. There is a mechant, there is an auctioneer and there is a temple. Baldur's Gate has the fascilities (and more of them), but it isn't natural to go through on your way from one loot area to another. It also comes with several extra transitions, which is tedious.

Lawless land, neutral ground. There are no guards outside of the OSR keep and the FAI courtyard. That means people who are of more shady character can do their business, provoke drama and even flat out create conflict there without as much repercussion. As long as people stay away from direct sight of the guards, they can do things more liberally without breaching any metagaming rules. It is also specifically neutral ground even inside the inn, meaning this is somewhere outlaws like the pirates of Roaringshore can meet, say, paladins of the Radiant Heart without being molested either by the paladins themselves or other guards.

Emptiness. This relates to the first one: When people are actively looking at the scry trying to find RP, they see the largest concentration of players on the FAI map, and go there. Without a dedicated effort to make RP happen inside BG, no one is going to go there for spontaneous RP. Lyrewyn made an effort a couple of years ago to have this happen. She stated on the forums that a certain time on a couple of days every week, she would try to be in Baldur's Gate RPing. Several others chimed in and did the same, and Baldur's Gate RP flourished quite significantly for a while. I personally would encourage this kind of thing to happen again, as I too would love to see more RP happen inside the city that gives the server its name.

More events and storylines within Baldur's Gate would help immensely as well, DG. *wink wink*

How many times has a dragon or balor dropped in near the FAI, right?!?

Events and storylines around BG will only have a momentary flash effect while DMs are present. We've seen that before. Centring RP on Baldur's Gate requires concerted player effort or module changes. We've seen the first of those work before.

Could take a page from the original Baldur's Gate game and rework the server CR's a bit... Make everyone start in Soubar and put more mid to high CR dungeons/area's around BG, but that would of course require reworking dungeon/area CR's or moving existing ones entry/exit connectors to support.

If players don't start in the city (or even if they do, since there could be both low end and high end CR area's) it can become more of a hub similar to FAI since the area's around BG can be of higher CR. Heck, the Hilltop Ruins through Gibberling Caves could simply be repurposed to CR 25+ and instantly BG see's more traffic, since it is nearby the Fields of the Dead, the Trollclaws and would have an additional, fairly large dungeon with four levels. We have a very low percentage of high CR area's so if Hilltop through Gibberling was modified to be CR25, 27, 29 and 31 (or something like this), respectively that would be a pretty cool upgrade to the number of high CR area's.

It's probably not going to be a popular suggestion but removing some of the conveniencies that FAI has like a good merchant, auction or games would probably be a good thing for BG city as well.

Remove Mudd's and make the merchant only offer 900 gold max for items. Doesn't make much sense for an Inn to have either. Mudd's can be placed in other locations either Beregost, Candlekeep, or Nashkel.

Valefort wrote:It's probably not going to be a popular suggestion but removing some of the conveniencies that FAI has like a good merchant, auction or games would probably be a good thing for BG city as well.

Actually, a better suggestion would be to make Baldur's Gate the travel hub of the server. Let there be Caravans that take you to the other cities, towns, or citadels. You could have a caravan in the Wide that you could just hop on as to they venture out to 'restock.' The further you wish to travel, the more it would cost, and it wouldn't even matter if that was a one way trip only.

Because lets face it, at level 6 you can spam at FAI. From FAI, it is one transition south and you can reach a boat that takes you to BG docks, and from there you can easily access the northern areas. Or you could just keep running south for higher CR areas, or perhaps use the new Greenfields map for your advantage.

Another idea would be to add some higher level dungeon crawl into the sewers of Baldur's Gate. Perhaps a temple of Bhaal.

Consistent flash effects, repetitive flash effects, can also affect a change, right?

Baldur's Gate, being the largest city with a HARBOR, should really provide the most choice and greatest economy (arguably the most besides Darkhold, which caters to merchantile business with a certain dogma and efficiency behind it).

Steve wrote:Consistent flash effects, repetitive flash effects, can also affect a change, right?

Not in my experience. DM led event focused "activity" provides water for the fish of RP. The fish dies when the water stops flowing.

The players are a river...

I'll just chime in and say at times there are heaps of RP around Baldur's Gate. My main's guild is in BG, as are several others he's associated with. I spend over 90% of my time in BG it seems like. But it takes a spark to light the fire and sometimes people are not willing to mill around a bit for people to come, then go off to FAI where there is a higher chance for casual contact because of it's location value (connection to looting areas, common travel path, merchants, auction, ect). Some consideration to quest and resource locations around BG would help a lot to direct flow and in turn increase casual encounters with other players. But mostly it takes a spark to light the blaze.