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Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:22 pm
by adzling
thank YOU!!!!

i will pm you later today with a possible plot line and ways to get the major factions involved.

you can then discuss with the dm team and hopefully we can make something special happen.

thank you so much void!

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:50 pm
by joleda
Clan Shield Breaker ... can players join or help run? Just curious.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:32 pm
by Molag__Bal
Just wanted to add that I have never, in 13 months playing on this server, seen a DM shout announcing a UD event starting up in a specific location. Seen tons of those on the surface though.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:38 pm
by TheVoid
UD DM's in the past were either very discrete or like to run events spontaneously. It's a matter of choice. Most don;t want "jumpers" who will jump into a UD character at a drop of a hat from their surface alt, just to participate. That kind of behavior doesn't show committment to the event running dm, so I can see why the "S" shout is avoided.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:07 pm
by Molag__Bal
I guess I don't really understand why a DM needs to be UD or surface. I agree that the plot driven UD events need a DM that is familiar with the lore, and probably one that is also familiar with the layout of the UD. Not sure that's the case for the "An uprising of goblin slaves have started marching on Sshamath" type events, which could take place in Varalla's passage.

If DM's will only do events for groups of 4+ that are RPing, then that puts the UD at a big disadvantage. It typically has 1/5 or less of the player base, and due to the continued lack of DM love, players do tend to go out and loot chests or grind. You can't expect them to sit around Sshamath day after day, fingers crossed, just waiting for a DM to notice them.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:19 pm
by Eviloth
TheVoid wrote:UD DM's in the past were either very discrete or like to run events spontaneously. It's a matter of choice. Most don;t want "jumpers" who will jump into a UD character at a drop of a hat from their surface alt, just to participate. That kind of behavior doesn't show committment to the event running dm, so I can see why the "S" shout is avoided.

I agree Void with that. Jumpers tend to tick me off. If you are building a well played UD person then stay down in the UD and really work them. It doesn't mean that you can't play a surface alt, that would be too restrictive, but if you only come down when you think there is a UD DM event you are in my opinion stealing away from the base of players that devote most of their time to it.

I try and look at this thread thru the eyes of a DM as well and that would tick me off. But I do have a question to ask of all of the DMs, no response is needed, but just answer this to yourself.

"What do you think would happen if this were reversed? If majority of the Dms played in the UD? Would there be more pc's on the surface or in the UD?"

I think this is what many UD pc's are thinking about as well and it CAN tend to pose an issue. Again this isn't an attack on anyone, I think there is some good discussion going on here and I hope it continues to progress.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:16 am
by Egg Shen
Are you guys SURE you want more DM attention?

I'm gonna give some feedback here, and it's going to sound hyper-critical, but I do mean it to be constructive. I would say upwards of 75% of my dm interaction on this server has been kind of... bad.

Now, I'll admit that I've played on some pretty hardcore roleplay servers. The kind that are password protected and require applications and have small playerbases and dedicated DM's. (By 'dedicated,' I mean DM's that aren't allowed to be players (which, by the by, is a really really good rule, but it DOES tend to limit the amount of DM's you get)).

So it's possible that my ideas of what make good DM'ing just don't work on an open server with a big fat population. That said, I can't help but compare them in my mind, and while I understand that player-driven material is great for DM's to grab onto, in my experience the best DM interactions come about because the DM wants to introduce the characters to a slice of their imaginary world, and not due to the fact they want to make all our character's dreams come true.

Because, you can't FORCE a dm to care about your character's desire to bring Sshamath to it's knees with guerilla warfare siege tactics. He might think you're reaching, or might not wish to upset the lore of the sourcebooks, or might just think it's trite and uninspired, etc. On the other hand, if a DM is introducing NPC's that they enjoy playing, or creating mysteries that they want the pc's to unravel because they are clever and intricate, then they are far more likely to remain interested (and be interesting). Examples of what I've seen here (and constructive alternatives when applicable) include:

Spawn wave events. I could not abhor these any more than I presently do. They generally attract lots of players, which tends to make events turn a bit cluster-eff-ish and unfun. They cause lag. And at the end of the day, it's just more combat. We get plenty of combat, some of it quite challenging (depending on what you're going after) without a DM present. Sometimes there is a cause for such spawn waves, which is nice, but it seems fairly often it's just a 'fun' thing that has no underlying plot or archenemy or mystery to unravel.

Events that run completely roughshod over established lore. Usually, I'm all for a more dynamic approach to lore that we create as we go, but when there is a strike force of surfacers in Sshamath literally wiping out wave after wave of npc drow, it's a bit hard to swallow.

Events that do not take into account, or do not reward, pc motivation for getting involved, or not getting involved in an event. This one is a bit hard to explain, but several times I've seen events getting started where the lead-in is simply, "I am powerful and can reward you with magical items if you do what I want." I mean, we're supposed to be playing realistic characters who behave in a realistic fashion. My drow would likely just kill you and take your stuff if that were true, but at the very least characters want to have SOME reason for trusting the word of a stranger. If those characters ask a few questions, have some answers ready! And if somebody stays in character and plays it to the hilt and actually refuses the quest, reward that person for having some roleplay integrity, and not just wagging their tail in your presence because you graced them with an "event."

Handing out requested gear. This seems the very antithesis of roleplay to me. If there is treasure to be had at the end of a quest/story, it should make sense within the context of said quest/story/mystery/etc. You shouldn't get things handed to you because you either request them, or the DM knows it would be good for your character. It also creates awkwardness and a break in being IC that really isn't needed.

OOC oddities. Recently, a particular guild was basically told on their private forums that the reason they got no attention from the dm's is because said faction wasn't 'doing it right.' At the same time, there was a mixed message which essentially said 'tell us how you want things to go.' From my perspective, if you're displeased with the way the faction is going, feel free to dismantle it IC (which is essentially what they did), or roll with the punches IC. But for the DM's to come OOC and basically bash the players for not roleplaying in a manner that they approve of is just about the biggest turn-off I've encountered on the server. For all my ranting and raving (in the past) about balance, I'd never consider not playing here because of it. But the current crop of very, let's say... "authoritative"... DM's is doing the trick. I know, I know, big deal, the server is already full and I'm just a 'powergamer' anyway, but it's how I feel.

If we can expect more of the above when/if we get dm's in the UD, then as crazy as it may seem, I'd almost rather go without. But if we can get some subtlety, some inventive intrigue that doesn't require the bashing of heads, some interesting npc's that we can interact with, then I'm all for it.

I feel that one should not be a DM unless they have story arcs, and npc's, and villains, and factions that THEY want to develop. Getting involved in player driven stuff seems like it should come organically because DM's watch and pay attention to what the pc's say and do, rather than because they posted their bio on the forums for the whole world to see (no offense to those that do it, I just find it to be very OOC and not my thing). And don't be afraid to randomly reward people with xp for roleplay that you find engaging. It lets them know you're watching and gives them hope that someday a personalized event might come their way.

As it stands right now, I don't play at BGTSCC because of the DM's. I play here because, for the most part, there are a lot of people and the vast majority of them are decent roleplayers with interesting characters. I don't play in the UD that much anymore not because of a lack of DM interaction, but because it's sparsely populated and always has been. I'm sorry, but this is very unlikely to change. Many people are drawn to this server because it has lots of players. When they get here and find that most of those players are on the surface, it isn't surprising that they end up there.

Wow, I wrote a book. :shock:

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:03 am
by Egg Shen
Addendum to the book!

I am not saying I can do better, by the way. It is really hard work dm'ing, particularly the kind I'm advocating above. It takes a patience and talent that I don't have to create scenarios where the players are both the pawns in your story, and the stars of it, too.

Also, the dm staff is generally quite responsive and available when you have OOC issues that need sorted out, for which I am most grateful.

Didn't want to seem entirely negative, as it wasn't really my intention when I started writing that behemoth of a post.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:19 am
by Eldebryn
For the most part I have to go with the "Any DM is better than no DM at all" path.

Honestly I have no idea about the circumstances and occasions Egg describes. It's almost funny because, guess what, we rarely see a DM down there so being a UD only player I can't offer my opinion on that matter.

I still insist on my aforementioned opinion however, and that is for 2 reasons:

1) If you don't like an event and find it being too much hack/slash for you, just say so OOC and leave, that's what I would do.

2) Even though there is significant RP in the UD during the times there are more than 4-5 players there(I insist on that fact), when the server population is below 50, UD is commonly quiet and makes you feel like you are the only survivor after a zombie apocalypse in Ssamath. There may be another 1 - 3 players online but during these times most people end up grinding/soloing and maybe some chit-chat with sufficient luck. Therefore, with the current status of the UD even the most simple and uninspired events would be... 'something'

I am not trying to say that 'absolutely anything will do', I am a big fan of RP-focused events and plot/scenario campaigns myself, however I am led to believe that some DM presence there can hardly deteriorate the current situation for the above reasons.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:58 am
by Maecius
Honestly, the biggest challenge I've faced with DMing for the Underdark is finding players for whom I can DM. The lack of population in tandem with the fact that most Underdark players no longer expect a great deal of DM attention makes spontaneous DMing extremely difficult down there.

As a result, all but three of my Underdark events have been scheduled events, usually at the request of an UD guild leader or an UD PC. I've found that this works very well, for me, personally.

I am very willing to work with UD players who have ideas that need a DM's guiding hand. I ask that anyone with a good idea for their group or their guild send a PM my way. Please do not contact me in-game and expect immediate attention; when I am in-game on the DM client, I am usually doing an event for someone already, or else I am fixing a specific problem (or doing "tech support DMing" while working on the forums or doing something else).

Also, please note that I can't get to everyone right away. I have at least 5 events on my plate right now -- some small, some large, some huge -- and only so much free time in my day. But I am happy to help, as are, I suspect, most of the other DMs as well, and I will get to you when I can.

Because I am not a fan of announcing events over the Shout channel -- which tends to attract large groups even in the Underdark -- scheduling an event with me (or any other DM, for that matter) is a great way to go about it, until the presence down there is strong enough to better support and encourage "random encounter DMing."

EDIT: Also, please note that you do not need to approach me with a scripted event -- and in fact, I'd prefer you did not. Just a general idea, a motivation, a plot, or a brainstorm can work wonders.

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:09 pm
by Izz'orgoll
Izzy would like a port to the surface so that he can kill as many kivvil as possible, and bring any that survive back to the UD for torture and slavery.

Thanks in advance.

Izz'orgoll

:twisted:

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:29 pm
by DM mdwagner
:D UD players please feel welcome to PM me whem you see me log in as DM; if you do I will do mey best to include you on any events ;)

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:33 pm
by TheVoid
If you actually played here still I can probably arrange something. None of the Charnag players have been active of late. There are now female charnag running around down there....pity.

I've gotten not one plot or write up yet...(To adzling) I've done my part and UD dm'd as much time as I could. Where's the love mates?

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:40 pm
by moore1.
actually ive been rping my butt off with multiple posts with multiple plots and ive been rping the forums and ive been pming multiple Dms ....guess ive been pming the wrong ones. With all the posts ive wrote up and the plots ive got going seems none are interested in them except Eviloth and Adventure class which we rp really well alone with out HELP.

And im in the Charnag Maelthra and the school of necromancy

Re: Were did our UnderDark Dms go?

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:10 pm
by Eviloth
Yeah we are to the point where it will need DM intervention and Caveman is working on it.