Sneak matters: Epic Precision

[The Whistler]

High BAB sneaks 2 opee.

Dragon druids are fine, everyone.

[grunts]

21 levels can truly be held up as a unique feat. 10 for a feat that doesn't exist in PnP? Not the same thing at all.

Whether it exists in pnp or not is irrelevant. Epic precision requires 10 levels of rogue, how does that not qualify as a unique feat? My point is many classes have to commit twice as many levels for a single feat. If you aren't even willing to commit 10 levels to epic precision why should you get the benefits of it? That's like saying non barbarians should have access to epic rage.

[Thorsson]

Well Snarfy, if you had a point there I'd admit you got me. But no. You just don't.

m3ntal just needs to learn about jokes.

grunts, well it is unique currently; the question is whether there's any good reason that it should so remain. And the clear answer to that is no.

Rage is the defining aspect of Barbarian; no other class has it. The same can hardly be said for sneak attack. May I commend to you the words of Confucius, "When man find himself in deep pit, he should stop digging".

[Aelcar]

High BAB sneaks 2 opee.

Dragon druids are fine, everyone.

I didn't say Bodyguard. I said Dread Commando.

But then again, one day you and mechanics will become friends

[The Whistler]

I didn't say 'High BAB sneak'. I said 'High BAB sneak'.

But then again, one day you and mechanics will become friends

Yep, that's your post.

Anyway, nitpicking balance on a thread about sneaks is somewhat ridiculous. They sorely need another high BAB class with stunted SA progression or a feat like daring outlaw.

[Face]

High BAB sneaks 2 opee.

Dragon druids are fine, everyone.

I know right :p

[Aelcar]

Actually, they don't on BGTSCC. They do in other NWN2 servers, but that's another story.

Here, you can play 20 Rogue/10 Assassin (example) and have zero issues hitting things.

If for you D8 hp, max SA progression, High BAB and +4/+4 Hide/MS among other things is OK on a 5 lvl PrC, then go ahead and propose it. I'll vote no, but maybe it will be approved, who knows?

Regardless from certain ideas, the very fact already two people bring Dragon Druids in a sneak discussion (which is absurd) shows why Quality Control is a private forum, and why it's a sad necessity.

Now we just need Paladins and Wizards into it, and we're golden.

Finally, if you want to talk about Dragon Druids, please, open a thread and get destroyed (or use the search button. I heard it's OP). Can't wait .

[mrm3ntalist]

There are already 3 high BAB PRCs for sneaks, Wilderness Stalker, Invisible Blade and NeverWinter 9.

[The Whistler]

Just trying to put things into perspective is all, no need for your usual self-righteous drivel bud. Arguing that a 5 level PRC with high BAB, full SA progression and a couple skill bonuses is OP while you're cool with these giant red eyesores running around with 65 AC and 42 DC mass drowns is what I call being penny wise and pound foolish.

If that's the prevalent mindset within the QC, I can definitely see why you'd spare yourself the embarassment and make the forum private.

@mrm3ntalist Yeah, I don't think anyone counts Broken Blade as an actual sneak class. The prerequisites are downright retarded, not to mention that it's completely neutered by anything with 6 DR or more.

Bodyguard is a cool class to dip but it's just that, a dip.

WS is just 3d6 SA class with some cool utility thrown in. I'm talking about a level 10 PRC with at least 4d6 SA, like Nightsong Enforcer.

[Face]

Actually, they don't on BGTSCC. They do in other NWN2 servers, but that's another story.

Here, you can play 20 Rogue/10 Assassin (example) and have zero issues hitting things.

If for you D8 hp, max SA progression, High BAB and +4/+4 Hide/MS among other things is OK on a 5 lvl PrC, then go ahead and propose it. I'll vote no, but maybe it will be approved, who knows?

Regardless from certain ideas, the very fact already two people bring Dragon Druids in a sneak discussion (which is absurd) shows why Quality Control is a private forum, and why it's a sad necessity.

Now we just need Paladins and Wizards into it, and we're golden.

Finally, if you want to talk about Dragon Druids, please, open a thread and get destroyed (or use the search button. I heard it's OP). Can't wait .

You need 2 feats for dread commando though so its not like you can 'just' pick it up its a good class to take when your going SD for example.

[maulofthetitans55]

Actually, they don't on BGTSCC. They do in other NWN2 servers, but that's another story.

Here, you can play 20 Rogue/10 Assassin (example) and have zero issues hitting things.

If for you D8 hp, max SA progression, High BAB and +4/+4 Hide/MS among other things is OK on a 5 lvl PrC, then go ahead and propose it. I'll vote no, but maybe it will be approved, who knows?

Regardless from certain ideas, the very fact already two people bring Dragon Druids in a sneak discussion (which is absurd) shows why Quality Control is a private forum, and why it's a sad necessity.

Now we just need Paladins and Wizards into it, and we're golden.

Finally, if you want to talk about Dragon Druids, please, open a thread and get destroyed (or use the search button. I heard it's OP). Can't wait .

There sure are a lot of annoying twelve year old's in this thread. You have absolutely zero grasp on class balance and are a good reason to make the QC forums public.

In other news, thread lock in 3.....2.....

[Face]

I like a small joke now and then... But be nice plz

[Aelcar]

Just trying to put things into perspective is all, no need for your usual self-righteous drivel bud. Arguing that a 5 level PRC with high BAB, full SA progression and a couple skill bonuses is OP while you're cool with these giant red eyesores running around with 65 AC and 42 DC mass drowns is what I call being penny wise and pound foolish.

If you weren't a snarky SOB yourself, I wouldn't use the drivel .

Again with the Druids: stay on topic, or open a thread.

If that's the prevalent mindset within the QC, I can definitely see why you'd spare yourself the embarassment and make the forum private.

The only thing that was embarassing, was the playerbase of ToA's opinion of you. In the public forums.

@mrm3ntalist Yeah, I don't think anyone counts Broken Blade as an actual sneak class. The prerequisites are downright retarded, not to mention that it's completely neutered by anything with 6 DR or more.

It's a pretty good PrC, to be honest. High pre-requs, but several others (like Assassin) have none, so there you go.

Bodyguard is a cool class to dip but it's just that, a dip.

It's a total of 5 levels...

WS is just 3d6 SA class with some cool utility thrown in. I'm talking about a level 10 PRC with at least 4d6 SA, like Nightsong Enforcer.

Which is not Dread Commando, nor Infiltrator. The ones I mentioned in the post you reacted on...

You need 2 feats for dread commando though so its not like you can 'just' pick it up its a good class to take when your going SD for example.

Those feats are no problem. If you go Tempest, Shadowdancer, Whirling Dervish and the likes (which are all excellent), you can "just" pick it up.

There sure are a lot of annoying twelve year old's in this thread. You have absolutely zero grasp on class balance and are a good reason to make the QC forums public.

In other news, thread lock in 3.....2.....

I don't know from which sewer you came out, but you're one of the most blunt individuals I have ever seen on the forums, and this is not the first thread you act like this.

Let me return the favor: you're an imbecile. Go play blackjack, hoping you can at least count...

I like a small joke now and then... But be nice plz

Don't worry: he was talking to me . I attract these kind of forum heroes naturally. All good

[seawied]

All this insulting is way out of hand and adds nothing to this discussion. The arrogance of the last few posts has been astounding. I lost a ton of respect for everyone involved.

[mrm3ntalist]

@mrm3ntalist Yeah, I don't think anyone counts Broken Blade as an actual sneak class. The prerequisites are downright retarded, not to mention that it's completely neutered by anything with 6 DR or more.

Bodyguard is a cool class to dip but it's just that, a dip.

WS is just 3d6 SA class with some cool utility thrown in. I'm talking about a level 10 PRC with at least 4d6 SA, like Nightsong Enforcer.

3d6SA is not bad, especially if you add the tracking (which very helpful in PVE) and camouflage. Even if another High BAB rogue PRC is implemented it is likely that it will get 3d6SA.

The reason for this is that for low or medium BAB classes to get a higher BAB PRC, some sacrifices need to be made. Wizards for example, any High BAB PRC (EK and DS for example ) they have their CL dropped and they get less "wizard" bonuses while at the same time they get something else ( heavy armor proficiency, Shield proficiency etc )

All current rogue high BAB PRCs are good ones, even Invisible Blade with their bugged bleeding wound. They can take rogues to a different direction in case of WD and IB or simply a very powerful dip in the case of bodyguard. ( High BAB, 2d6SA and movement speed increase is very big for a 3lvl dip - speed is the best defense of a rogue after the combination of AC and epic dodge).

Now if you have in mind a PRC that you think will give more flavor to rogues and not just mechanical power, you can always suggest it.