Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Thids wrote:

chad878262 wrote: What would be the benefit of creating a new PRC that isn't really strong enough that players will be willing to utilize the work put in to making such a class?

Then make it strong enough?

Well, as I said, it is getting some pretty strong abilities, such as light armor autostill. I think the best I could possibly advocate for would be 6/10 progression so you could have W10/EK10/BS10 w/ CL29, but if you throw SB in the mix that is going to bring it down to ~24. You can't get all the great stuff Bladesinger gets and be full caster progression.

What if they get full CL progression, but limit the character to 6th or 7th circle spells as the highest?

dedude wrote:What if they get full CL progression, but limit the character to 6th or 7th circle spells as the highest?

So a caster that wears light armor and casts up to 6th or 7th level spells...isn't that a bard?

chad878262 wrote:

dedude wrote:What if they get full CL progression, but limit the character to 6th or 7th circle spells as the highest?

So a caster that wears light armor and casts up to 6th or 7th level spells...isn't that a bard?

He would still use wizard spells and he wouldn't use songs, so no not a bard. Just trying to suggest an alternate parameter for balancing the PRC. It would limit spellpower to balance his martial skills, but still allow a build that doesn't struggle too much with dispels.

I don't think limiting the circle of spells is the way to go about it. The reason I gave it full CL in the first post was because of the way dispell works in the server. Arcane gishes(in lighter armors) just squish if they get dispelled to the tiniest dispell sneeze, in a battle that requires them to fully ward up. Bladesingers in that way are also supposed to be able to content martially without fully buffing up. This being the Bladesong Style, and the Song of Fury. And in part the bonus feats that allows them to choose some spell and martial abilities to suppliment the choice in fighting style.

yea bard shouldn't have access, from a power point of view, just my opinion.

what we dont want is sorcs with 9th level spells, running around with 30bab(via tensors spell) be able to autostill

So you want a gish with spellpower of an arch mage, full caster level protection from dispel, and martial prowess to stand toe-to-toe in melee, even without buffs?

Tensors unlike Divine Power doesn't provide BAB as the description states, but AB. And as such limited to the +20 AB Cap in total. Which btw Divine buffs and as such Divine Gishes can go beyond that number.

dedude wrote:So you want a gish with spellpower of an arch mage, full caster level protection from dispel, and martial prowess to stand toe-to-toe in melee, even without buffs?

I don't see the need to make exaggerations like this to make a nonexistant point. You know that is not what I wrote.

mabey give them prohibited spell school transmutaion, saying that they are so intune with their blade any alteration throws off this balance or harmory

just an idea

7threalm wrote:mabey give them prohibited spell school transmutaion, saying that they are so intune with their blade any alteration throws off this balance or harmory

just an idea

That removes Bull strength, Cat's Grace, Bears Endurance, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen's edge and Haste right out of the top of my head. Don't think thats the right choice(and by lore). Necromancy would be a more stylistic choice there, but the removal of a school I don't think is the right solution.

They are in harmony with the weave and their bladeworks, which is why the bladesong esist. To be one with the Art while fighting is being in harmony.

Tantive wrote:

dedude wrote:So you want a gish with spellpower of an arch mage, full caster level protection from dispel, and martial prowess to stand toe-to-toe in melee, even without buffs?

I don't see the need to make exaggerations like this to make a nonexistant point. You know that is not what I wrote.

Maybe I misunderstood your post then, sorry for that. But you never gave a reason why you thought limiting the spell circles was a bad idea for balancing it? Maybe it is, I don't know. But the fact is the prc has to give up something, it can't be a full blown wizard and fighter.

well the class is silly strong, so there would need to be some sacrifices for it to implemented

It kind is a wizard and fighter in one. The difficulty is squeezing in this prc with the rules set. I agree it needs to give something up, but the edge where an arcane gish walks is between getting squished and surviving. If it takes one dispell or breach to end a prc, that says how much thought was put into its developement.

Imho there has to be a countermeasure to casters. The full caster progression is not necessary and a CL28 can handle himself well enough against all the dispells I would think. Mordekainen's Disjunction is supposed to rip magic away so... :p plus spell breaches were and always will be the sure way to strip a few wards.

After all Bladesingers aren't supposed to be master archmages as their focus lies in blending swordplay with magic and not pure magic.

But that's all for devs to decide I guess.