Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Akroma666 wrote: I challenge any of you to name an event in the last 6 months that was of significant evil that changed the server as we know it.

The Zhentarim gained entry into Baldur's Gate. That was years of work, and at the end, myself and others RP'd our hearts out. Most of the negotiations will never be seen, but IMO it counts as some of the finest RP I have ever been a part of, and gods knows it was not easy. Evil is not always maniacal, hand wrenching, or mustache twirling. It doesn't have to be moments of utter destruction, it can (and most often is) a slow permeation that pecks softly at, and eventually erodes down perceptions of what is right and wrong- so that when something happens, there are many who just don't see it as evil winning. And that's the whole point. Evil persists, and thrives, if it can convince enough people that it's not evil.

It's time consuming, it takes a very long time to reap the rewards of, it requires a great deal of patience, and it's never, ever easy.

But I simply cannot accept that it's impossible.

I pretty much stopped playing evil entirely because I can't enjoy playing evil with a community that just doesn't support it on an OOC and IC level.

I played Dalelands before coming here. I remember, we had evil and good both out in the open (faction vs faction) in fairly equal measure. We had different kinds of evils and different kinds of goods that would clash. It was varied, and it was quite fun. It was possible to play any alignment and conflict with even your own alignment, but no melodrama came out of it on an OOC level. The community rolled with it, and rarely would DMs not support your specific case or players shut you out on an OOC level.

Its been so long since Dalelands was in its prime, I'm not sure what is different here. From what I understand, during the Amn-Gate war, there was faction vs faction gameplay, made up of multiple DM supported player factions. Though, it seems that is really no more. The focus now seems to be on DM made-up NPC factions vs player factions. Player factions opposing other player factions can make believe that they inhibit one another, but, from what I observed it is a one-sided battle. Good alignments seem to perpetually win.

Its not necessarily the worst thing in the world, but, its honestly a far-cry in quality from the alternative. I think it would be a boon to the server to shift to a server plot focus where opposing player factions can conflict, and where conflicts are supported by the DMs. If the DMs make it clear that player to player conflict is not only ok, but is also integral to the plot, I think that a lot of melodrama between players when it comes to conflict will dissipate. Of course, the community would need time to mature, but maturing a community is worthwhile on its own.

That being said, because of this, I find it fruitless to play evil. As it stands, a player is able to make the most out of BG by falling into line with the main good factions and not opposing them in any way. This will minimize OOC melodrama for them and will allow them to participate the most in the server plots when they come around. That is the best advise in my experience, when it comes to participating in the larger events of the server. It is advise I have recently taken as well, as mentioned above, in my decision to not play anything other than something that coincides with one of the central good/neutral but good leaning factions. After this decision, I've found myself far more involved with the server and just able to simply RP with more people. It seems the decision allows me to do more.

And, it is true. Evil can be sneaky. Evil is often sneaky, because it has to be on this server. My general policy is that anything you do behind the scenes doesn't really benefit the rest of the server and isn't visible. If we can't notice it, we can't participate in it. It doesn't help the evil community much at all, just a handful of players who are doing the work behind the scenes (who can't involve a lot of people admittedly, because OOC secrecy prevents opposing players, who can get things done much quicker, from foiling any plans). And, it does take a lot of time to do anything. And a lot of patience. While, the other side can get things done quickly (and can get more things done).

It almost feels like a vicious circle. No Active Evil Presence = Evil Players Disillusioned/People don't want to make more evil characters = No active evil presence = . . .

This is just drawn from my own experiences for the first few years on BG playing evil. I found a few years of it promising (I recall doing drow to surface raids, raiding cities (RiP Beregost, to my count my characters have been involved with 2 or 3 raids of it), foiling good aligned plans. . .) and very entertaining. But, after a significant part of the evil community seemed to vanish during one of the breaks I took, I can't seem to really get into it to the degree that I was able at the beginning. It was frustrating, but I've learned to live with it.

Again, this is just my own experience. Others may have their own, others may mirror mine. Thanks for the read, Steve. It was very interesting to go over and reflect upon my own experiences.

metaquad4 wrote: It almost feels like a vicious circle. No Active Evil Presence = Evil Players Disillusioned/People don't want to make more evil characters = No active evil presence = . . .

This sums it up perfectly.

add to that circle dm attention. no presence makes for little dm attention. makes for players getting tired and lonely. makes for less players. makes for less want for attention. makes for no evil presence.

I think there is a bit too much focus on Good vs Evil here, at least in this thread. Granted there are a few "let the world burn" evil characters in the FR, but those are really rare and most often religious fanatics. Most characters, and factions, lie somewhere in between. People have goals and motivations, and the measures they are willing to take to achieve those determine the tones of their alignment.

Mr Evildude may love his neighbors and bake cookies for them, but he may also commit atrociously evil acts to defend them if they are attacked. If characters become completely one-dimensional, they become boring and predictable. Same with factions and guilds.

Usually conflicts aren't between two opposing alignments, but rather two opposing factions (or persons) with goals that collide. It can easily be between two factions that are generally considered of the same alignment.

Bear in mind I'm talking about non-monster factions here.

This thread breaks my heart - I really do hope evil toons get a bit of spot light in the future, when I get more free time I would be happy to come up with a few ideas but would have to brush them through with the DM team first.

It is difficult because evil RP has to be done in such a way that doesn't upset good players, but it isn't impossible to do.

trogers2 wrote:This thread breaks my heart - I really do hope evil toons get a bit of spot light in the future, when I get more free time I would be happy to come up with a few ideas but would have to brush them through with the DM team first.

It is difficult because evil RP has to be done in such a way that doesn't upset good players, but it isn't impossible to do.

Breaks all our dark hearts man.

It's what all us evil-doers want. All we can do is just hope the DM team opens their eyes to see it.

And if not we just have to make content for ourselves and just say it happened like I've had to do for the past 9 months. But it is what it is.

Alot of groups that are apposed to be evil are not at all . Red wizards are a very evil group there not considered evil here . The zhents are supposed to be evil but hang out with Doron Amar and candle keep and are more like radiant heart than evil . The coast is a very evil place here at bg it's alot of well paladin rule the world which is not how a pirate town bg and the coast would behave at all. Evil should have a place here not just for one secluded groups that's only evil part time

hksturbo wrote:Alot of groups that are apposed to be evil are not at all . Red wizards are a very evil group there not considered evil here . The zhents are supposed to be evil but hang out with Doron Amar and candle keep and are more like radiant heart than evil . The coast is a very evil place here at bg it's alot of well paladin rule the world which is not how a pirate town bg and the coast would behave at all. Evil should have a place here not just for one secluded groups that's only evil part time

Yeah i feel you there. . . when it comes down to it when you think of accomplishments pertaining to evil its a specific group of one to four people. . . its never something we as a GROUP worked to achieve as a WHOLE as evil master minds.

Quite simply said if there was opportunity out there for this what i stated above, well. . . We wouldn't be speaking in this forum. Out of the many same topics raised in the past. . . Now would we?

I just wanted to hop in here and say that as one of the very active members of the Halls of Light, I absolutely 100% concur with Ithilan when they say we'd be up for interactions with evil guilds, even to the point of our entire guild hall being burned down. Heck, if someone wants to abduct and murder Betha, I'd permakill her, especially if the plotline surrounding it was good.

I'm really up for anything. I'm pretty sure I speak for Fasol (Urth) as well. They just said to me, "Oh aye, if they just wanna beat up Urth too go for it , or kidnap, etc."

You want a community of good aligned PCs willing to accept consequences? Look no further. As long as you're willing to work with us to craft an amazing story, I'm in.

Don't expect our PCs to take it all laying down, of course, but that just makes it more fun! Who wants things to be easy?? Please contact one of us.

(I can't speak for every member of the Halls, but with at least 3 open to the idea, I'm sure we can make something happen.)

Cowbot wrote:I just wanted to hop in here and say that as one of the very active members of the Halls of Light, I absolutely 100% concur with Ithilan when they say we'd be up for interactions with evil guilds, even to the point of our entire guild hall being burned down. Heck, if someone wants to abduct and murder Betha, I'd permakill her, especially if the plotline surrounding it was good.

I'm really up for anything. I'm pretty sure I speak for Fasol (Urth) as well. They just said to me, "Oh aye, if they just wanna beat up Urth too go for it , or kidnap, etc."

You want a community of good aligned PCs willing to accept consequences? Look no further. As long as you're willing to work with us to craft an amazing story, I'm in.

Don't expect our PCs to take it all laying down, of course, but that just makes it more fun! Who wants things to be easy?? Please contact one of us.

(I can't speak for every member of the Halls, but with at least 3 open to the idea, I'm sure we can make something happen.)

Ill keep that in mind. Thanks man for your insight and contribution to the cause.

I think everyone forgets what the setting is about . It's not lawful good along the coast at all like it is on the server . Most the towns are glorified pirate holding places like bg . Ya the dukes are in charge in the totally evil red wizards let them . Why is it played that all areas have 100 paladins around at all times ? The lawful good toons would be the minority if we played by lore. The coast is a very rough place not candy canes and silver lanes . Let's remember that when playing might help

hksturbo wrote:Alot of groups that are apposed to be evil are not at all . Red wizards are a very evil group there not considered evil here . The zhents are supposed to be evil but hang out with Doron Amar and candle keep and are more like radiant heart than evil . The coast is a very evil place here at bg it's alot of well paladin rule the world which is not how a pirate town bg and the coast would behave at all. Evil should have a place here not just for one secluded groups that's only evil part time

Apparently not toggling hostile on sight is considered "hanging out" and not roleplaying your alignment. Hilarious.

Do you even know how the Red Wizards and their enclaves operate? How The Zhentarim operates, especially outside of the Moonsea and the Dalelands? Did you even have the decency to bother and soak in some lore before you decided to come here and take a dump all over other people's RP? I can imagine you are either a new player who has already been influenced by those who bump their chest and yell "WE DA TRUE EVILZ ON DA SERVER MONG", or you are a bitter old player with a new account, in which case I'd like to say: Hello RCastle

Here is some food for thought: You don't RP your character's alignment, you RP your character concept and their alignment reflects that roleplay, changing when necessary. Shocker, right?



A question for all those interested in creating a superleague of doom: Do you guys even consider the other part of the alignment of your characters? Or is having evil on their character sheet enough to try and group everyone together? Why don't you ever try or demand to group characters on the law/chaos axis? It's just as important as the good/evil one. I take the lawful on my character sheet and in my character's concept just as seriously as the evil part. Is it because it's a laughably stupid idea which would group paladins and lawful evil tyrants together? Yeah, let's consider that premise for a moment, and apply it to the good evil axis. Then let's throw in churches, deities and character concepts/motivations into the mix.

I've been on the server for one year . Many groups good aligned that detest evil and chase them out of areas have picnics and open merry times with zhents at the fai we see it all the time especially with the elfs and candle keep . All other persons saying there evil are chased away and forced to leave usually by force unless your part of the super team who made up of good aligned folks and then the zhents really ? This makes no sense at all the two good aligned groups attack all that claim to be evil how are followers of bane in the open immune to this ? Many evil toons are not even allowed in the open at such places unless they hide whom they are. The sword coast is a very very rough place there's alot more evil types around and alot less goodly types around at least in the lore than what we run all I'm saying

hksturbo wrote:I've been on the server for one year . Many groups good aligned that detest evil and chase them out of areas have picnics and open merry times with zhents at the fai we see it all the time especially with the elfs and candle keep . All other persons saying there evil are chased away and forced to leave usually by force unless your part of the super team who made up of good aligned folks and then the zhents really ? This makes no sense at all the two good aligned groups attack all that claim to be evil how are followers of bane in the open immune to this ? Many evil toons are not even allowed in the open at such places unless they hide whom they are. The sword coast is a very very rough place there's alot more evil types around and alot less goodly types around at least in the lore than what we run all I'm saying

Literally no one is chased away from the FAI, except maybe orcs. Stop making things up.