Enough with the rp bias whining!

[NeOmega]

vs getting maimed to death, be it on or off screen when it comes to play-along.

Under the rules of this server, players can't give other players permastrikes. I'm not sure why everyone keeps treating this like "If a malarite mauls my character I have to be permanently disfigured," or any variation of that.

Because there's an unspoken implication that if you don't do it, you're disrespecting their RP/are not a proper roleplayer who can "deal with consequences." Even if the player themselves don't do it, the forums have a clear hint of said mentality being present.

Somebody trying to control your character because they bested you in mechanical combat, is not a good RPer. You not wanting to play along with their bad RP doesn't make you a bad RPer.

[NeOmega]

Can I take a moment to just point out that we're all playing make believe here?

I dont think so:
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

[aaron22]

vs getting maimed to death, be it on or off screen when it comes to play-along.

Under the rules of this server, players can't give other players permastrikes. I'm not sure why everyone keeps treating this like "If a malarite mauls my character I have to be permanently disfigured," or any variation of that.

Because there's an unspoken implication that if you don't do it, you're disrespecting their RP/are not a proper roleplayer who can "deal with consequences." Even if the player themselves don't do it, the forums have a clear hint of said mentality being present.

no way. if my character defeats another in PvP i ask the player what are the limits to my victory. i have let a person go totally unharmed and been ok with it and i have also perma-killed PCs. it has, is and always will be up to the defeated in my case what i do after a PvP encounter. the only thing i stick with is that the player leave the area for x amount of time. this is always worked through pleasantly and with consideration of the losing player.

ex.
**i have just defeated player in PvP**
me: so what could my player do with or to you now?
player: what are you thinking. nothing permanent please and no capture too.
me: ok. how about i drag you to the troll cave like i am leaving bait for trolls? you can make your escape from there and come out in say 20 mins. i will leave by then.
player: i cannot survive the troll cave. how about the orges?
me: sure. lets go. thanks for the fun and exciting fight. do you need anything before i go. kits or anything?
player: no. i should be fine. see you. your character is a beast.
me: thanks. yours was too. good player behind him as well. put up a great fight.

this is how my post PvP usually goes. it is so much ado about nothing.

[Torgerias]

vs getting maimed to death, be it on or off screen when it comes to play-along.

Under the rules of this server, players can't give other players permastrikes. I'm not sure why everyone keeps treating this like "If a malarite mauls my character I have to be permanently disfigured," or any variation of that.

Because there's an unspoken implication that if you don't do it, you're disrespecting their RP/are not a proper roleplayer who can "deal with consequences." Even if the player themselves don't do it, the forums have a clear hint of said mentality being present.

No? If you treat it like this, then they're essentially godmoding your character, which is of course against the rules. They don't get to decide what effect their actions have on your character's physical appearance any more than they get to decide what you say or how you respond to their actions. They can perform the actions and, sure, if you think it's appropriate to be disfigured following that altercation then by all means go for it, but there's no obligation to do that. The consequences of your RP were that you were beaten and ripped up by a malarite, not that you have to be permanently changed because of the event. In the end, you come back just like you always do when you die, and you use your suspension of disbelief to explain it just like you always have to when you die.

EDIT: And if you really aren't comfortable with that, all it takes is sending a tell to the other person and saying "Dude, I'm really not ok with that, can we go a different direction please?" If they're a good RPer, they'll listen.

[Hoihe]

[quote"Hoihe"vs getting maimed to death, be it on or off screen when it comes to play-along.

Under the rules of this server, players can't give other players permastrikes. I'm not sure why everyone keeps treating this like "If a malarite mauls my character I have to be permanently disfigured," or any variation of that.

Because there's an unspoken implication that if you don't do it, you're disrespecting their RP/are not a proper roleplayer who can "deal with consequences." Even if the player themselves don't do it, the forums have a clear hint of said mentality being present.

No? If you treat it like this, then they're essentially godmoding your character, which is of course against the rules. They don't get to decide what effect their actions have on your character's physical appearance any more than they get to decide what you say or how you respond to their actions. They can perform the actions and, sure, if you think it's appropriate to be disfigured following that altercation then by all means go for it, but there's no obligation to do that. The consequences of your RP were that you were beaten and ripped up by a malarite, not that you have to be permanently changed because of the event. In the end, you come back just like you always do when you die, and you use your suspension of disbelief to explain it just like you always have to when you die.[/quote]


How does this fit together with the rather massive amount of threads calling for "more consequences" and for permadeath in particular, where the pro-side often describes the contra side as "not willing to deal with consequences"? I may be spending too much time on forums, and heard tales of actual abuse/experienced some, but I ended up with the impression that taking the easy way out (Amnesia covering up mental trauma, magical healing physical trauma) is considered the "unsporting" response.

[NeOmega]

How does this fit together with the rather massive amount of threads calling for "more consequences" and for permadeath in particular, where the pro-side often describes the contra side as "not willing to deal with consequences"? I may be spending too much time on forums, and heard tales of actual abuse/experienced some, but I ended up with the impression that taking the easy way out (Amnesia covering up mental trauma, magical healing physical trauma) is considered the "unsporting" response.

people that want "more consequences" from PvP are dorks.

[chad878262]

I think you mistook those forum discussions, Hoihe. I don't think Steve has ever advocated for players enforcing anything on other players. His advocacy of perma-death has always been either through Mechanical or DM enforcement.

Not picking on Steve, but he has been championing that cause since before I joined. The other perma-death voice that speaks out most often is Aaron, who just posted what IMO could be considered the friggin' baseline for how end of PvP should be handled and nowhere does he appear to advocate for being allowed to enforce anything on someone who loses to his character.

It's one thing to say "there should be more DM/Mechanically enforced consequences on the server" which is arguing for an actual change to how the server reacts to a player.

It's another thing to say "Players should take PvP results more seriously without any Mechanical implementation enforcing such" which is arguing that individuals should enforce their own rules. This is, IMO a silly statement because you can't expect everyone to play any game the same as you, you can only expect them to follow the rules set forth. These two could certainly be discussed within the same topic, but they are by no means mutual in their application.

[aaron22]

How does this fit together with the rather massive amount of threads calling for "more consequences" and for permadeath in particular, where the pro-side often describes the contra side as "not willing to deal with consequences"? I may be spending too much time on forums, and heard tales of actual abuse/experienced some, but I ended up with the impression that taking the easy way out (Amnesia covering up mental trauma, magical healing physical trauma) is considered the "unsporting" response.

people that want "more consequences" from PvP are dorks.

could be, but that would not be the reason.

a person who wants to be maimed from a PvP encounter is open minded and enjoys a challenge of RP and furthering their own RP skill and PC goals. not saying that those who do not are not these things. it could be a day to day feeling. The Player may not want this burden as their RP is challenging right now without having to explain a missing head. another may have an opening in their RP and story that could use a little spark that could fuel further development. it is just a case by case concept. you may even be feeling like this is the end for your character and being defeated is a good avenue to put the concept to bed. forever. its not the same every time with everyone. PvP needs to be open minded and consensual as the rules are right now. you could also not really want challenging RP. that is fine too. we all have reasons to play. reasons why we are here at all.

why do you play? to further your cause or make the server better. maybe you should ask if they are exclusive and if you are making them exclusive.

[Steve]

What Steve means when he rails on and on and on about more consequences and perma-this/that, is wanting to have chaos be as definitive to outcomes and the "storyline," as are our personal RP desires and decisions—one cannot have a true Living World experience without this balance, in a game environment.

Thus, if you RP an action for your Character in a situation of extreme difficulty, were the DC is high, and your PC fails to Save, then the dire outcome actually applies. Consequence. Which shall be incorporated into further RP of that Character.

The formulae is: Player Choice --> Living World result --> Character consequence (good or bad).

But...wait for it...consequences is part of the Risk v. Reward system. You can't be asking of Players to gamble with Risk if you do not provide clear concepts of Rewards!

The above road of thinking does end in the concept of Perma-Death, or could end with this. Which is the ultimate NOT WINNING, right?!? Well, that depends on the Player, if you cannot see that negative consequences of actions do not mean losing, per se, they could also mean great sacrifice, as well. Think of the Greeks!!! But these concepts are often lost on the more contemporary generations....

Anyway, I like CvC, and despise PvP, especially PvP that is mechanics pawning based. Personally, I'm not very interested in Player-determined "results" from conflict, UNLESS, it is very mutual. VERY MUTUAL.

[NeOmega]

How does this fit together with the rather massive amount of threads calling for "more consequences" and for permadeath in particular, where the pro-side often describes the contra side as "not willing to deal with consequences"? I may be spending too much time on forums, and heard tales of actual abuse/experienced some, but I ended up with the impression that taking the easy way out (Amnesia covering up mental trauma, magical healing physical trauma) is considered the "unsporting" response.

people that want "more consequences" from PvP are dorks.

could be, but that would not be the reason.

a person who wants to be maimed from a PvP encounter is open minded and enjoys a challenge of RP and furthering their own RP skill and PC goals. not saying that those who do not are not these things. it could be a day to day feeling. The Player may not want this burden as their RP is challenging right now without having to explain a missing head. another may have an opening in their RP and story that could use a little spark that could fuel further development. it is just a case by case concept. you may even be feeling like this is the end for your character and being defeated is a good avenue to put the concept to bed. forever. its not the same every time with everyone. PvP needs to be open minded and consensual as the rules are right now. you could also not really want challenging RP. that is fine too. we all have reasons to play. reasons why we are here at all.

why do you play? to further your cause or make the server better. maybe you should ask if they are exclusive and if you are making them exclusive.

Hey, if you want more consequences to happen to YOUR char, that's fine and dandy. If you want more consequences for your "enemies"... ...you're a dork.

I have no cause. I hardly "play" because of the enormous, IG project I am working on, (and about 4 hours of work away from finishing). I quit a couple years ago because the project became overwhelming.

Look, I play 2 games. Both are small community. The other (who a former DM also happened to play, which is crazy, because it is about 100 players at best, and usually 0 now on weekdays). The other game is pure skill. no upgrades, no classes, no items. everybody starts at zero before every battle. That game is fun because you best your enemies by skill alone. This game, is the opposite: a piss poor player can still whip the best player ever, if one is level 30 with epic gear on every appendage, and the other just started at level 1. This is not a game of skill, it is a RP game. I take feats for flavor, i never consider PvP when building. To get beat by somebody in PvP means nothing to me. What cheeses me off is people who want to dominate me, and my time, because their build beat mine mechanically. Everything about this server is voluntary. PvP is voluntary. As it should be. People clamoring for perma-strikes and maulings against their enemies, enforced by DM edict, are jerks. Why ruin the conflict? Tired of PvP, and the intrigue it comes with, and just want to go back to grinding? wanna be "the big winner" of BGTSCC? Want to use somebody elses defeat to add to the legend of your own toon?

[Torgerias]

(Amnesia covering up mental trauma, magical healing physical trauma) is considered the "unsporting" response.

I thought this was actually in the pvp rules as being the required response to pvp conflict. Maybe I have misread them.

[aaron22]

my stance on harsher consequences comes from a very simple idea. you can not be a hero if you never do anything dangerous. right now our characters are essentially immortal. therefore not a single one is a hero. campfire RP christmas cookie is 100% as dangerous (or lack there of) as pushing demogorgon's buttons. that is it. as long as the rules are the way they are i can posture until the cows come home, but that is all it is as i conform to the rules.

i could play HC and i have done it in the past, but it loses alot of its flavor when i/we are the only ones.

[Tekill]

I am utterly amazed you all missed one simple but amazing item in this thread. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it read the forum thread it seems....tsk.

That item I mention was, that in this very thread I created and almost as if using magic, coined the term : Snowflake Communism.

The revolution may now begin. Your welcome.

[Thayvian]

Playing an obviously evil character. I can tell you that my best experiances are roleplaying that a good character tries to Change my evil ways. Rather then trying to PVP me.

None of it's handled well I honestly hate PVP and I feel I have been forced to leave areas where Roleplay is happening missing out on valued Roleplaying XP.

While the entire time being told I can't force another player to RP the way I want while DMs and players force me to roleplay the way they want.

I find it silly and hypocritical. Honestly just lay off evil characters. The lawful Stupid paladin routine is a tired troupe that needs to die off.

No offense to anyone just my opinion. It's always handled so badly.

On a side note my evil character requested others to search for the malarite because he could be dangerous for my trade revenue. But I talked to good players IC and used my Lawful character traits as lawful evil character to promote law so I could be evil.

It's very difficult to play evil characters with out trigger happy PVP level 30s do gooders using any excuse in the book with thin as ice roleplaying to justify pvp.

Pvp should be removed indefinitely from the server it does not encourage good times at all. No one ever gets it right in anyway. And all it does is alienate players. Maybe.. just maybe it would work if there was a balance. But it's horribly unbalanced. And as other people have stated before.. Just look at the character build section to understand that if you allow this to happen Roleplay will always be second fiddle.

Anyways my 2 cents.

[MrPsion]

Thayvian, I have no idea how you play your character. But since I rolled LG I'm curious to know what your recommendations are for how I should play my own PC when someone is in a public area talking about how they're going to flay children alive or some such thing. I'll emphasize again I have no idea how you play your character. This is more of a reaction to RP I saw in public while playing my CN, who didn't much care.