The "Epic Store"

[chad878262]

Some players still see the value in consumables and middling gear. After all, having the middle of the road gear instead of low end gear allows you to survive in more places than you would otherwise. I also have still seen a somewhat interested market in wands/potions/scrolls, though it is a very specialized group of players so I have definitely learned that the market for such dries up relatively quickly. Many items do generally sell for less (I'd say in general +3 defl/nat/dodge items are about 30-35% less, for instance), but this actually helps newer players, which is a good thing!

[Wyatt]

I agree that the price drop is a great thing to help new players get the middle levels of gear. I only meant to point out that it does have the side effect of lowering gold generation for players in general.

[Steve]

to point out that it does have the side effect of lowering gold generation for players in general.

Yes, and this was not addressed in previous conversations about the Epic Shop. Already ridiculously rich Players could afford dropping a million coin on fully outfitting an epic toon. As well, they could also fully epic-weaponize a new toon during the Age of 100% RCR, or even, epic-weaponize and twink a low level toon.

But, those Players without lots of coin, and with mediocre gear, saw an immediate drop in that gears value. So cash poor toons became also item-value poor toons.

And it remains still difficult to save up a million coins (just as before, if not even worse). I say this from being a light grinder, who has only succeeded in acquiring coin when either a) another Player/toon gave it to me, b) was lucky to find a mith plate or something every other year, then sell it on the Auction House.

Maybe one day a few years from now, the epic shop items will become so common among the Playerbase, that no one can even sell that stuff for profit, and start undercutting the NPC.

But because coin gain IS constant, and NPC prices NEVER fluctuate with market, epic items from the shop will always retain a very high value (but possibly enter into a gift economy?!?).

Anyway, Fantasy Game Econ 101 is kinda silly.

[mrm3ntalist]

Those filthy rich players should stop playing on BG. They only cause problems.

[Steve]

Those filthy rich players should stop playing on BG. They only cause problems.

Sarcasm!!! Police!!!!

I didn't say filthy, mate. I said ridiculous. And it IS ridiculous, because if anyone has played on BGTSCC for more than 4 years, they should have millions of unspent coin, because there wasn't anything to spend it on.

Until now.

Or, they could be stupid like me and spend their 2.5 million on a scimitar from Karond, which now, is hardly even better than what is at that Epic Shop. Which, btw, proves my point about value drop of Epic Epicness.

[Akroma666]

Those filthy rich players should stop playing on BG. They only cause problems.

Is that a personal attack?! J/K

I think they are a legacy and a reminder of how things once were.. And how gifted we are now. Balance!

We should just tax them.. 15% every month. Give it to the newbies.. Robin Hood eat your heart out!

[mrm3ntalist]

Those filthy rich players should stop playing on BG. They only cause problems.

Sarcasm!!! Police!!!!

I didn't say filthy, mate. I said ridiculous. And it IS ridiculous, because if anyone has played on BGTSCC for more than 4 years, they should have millions of unspent coin, because there wasn't anything to spend it on.

Until now.

Or, they could be stupid like me and spend their 2.5 million on a scimitar from Karond, which now, is hardly even better than what is at that Epic Shop. Which, btw, proves my point about value drop of Epic Epicness.

On the other hand, imagine those players with many epic items, how much value their items lost. Other than the grandfathered items, everything else lost value considerably.

Who suggested to put an epic shop in? They should be hanged for that!

[Steve]

Other than the grandfathered items, everything else lost value considerably.

There are two very big problems with this statement, mate.

[mrm3ntalist]

Other than the grandfathered items, everything else lost value considerably.

There are two very big problems with this statement, mate.

There always is are!

[chad878262]

Those filthy rich players should stop playing on BG. They only cause problems.

Sarcasm!!! Police!!!!

I didn't say filthy, mate. I said ridiculous. And it IS ridiculous, because if anyone has played on BGTSCC for more than 4 years, they should have millions of unspent coin, because there wasn't anything to spend it on.

Until now.

Or, they could be stupid like me and spend their 2.5 million on a scimitar from Karond, which now, is hardly even better than what is at that Epic Shop. Which, btw, proves my point about value drop of Epic Epicness.

On the other hand, imagine those players with many epic items, how much value their items lost. Other than the grandfathered items, everything else lost value considerably.

Who suggested to put an epic shop in? They should be hanged for that!

*points at M3ntalist*

j/k, I've no idea who's idea it was originally. but, ya know...blame the elf!

In any case, I find it hard, looking at what the server appeared as when I started 2 years ago to think that things are not better now than they were. I had a nearly impossible time getting started, but have met some fairly new players the past couple of months that, based on conversations appear to have had a much easier time acclimating. Sure, I never had 2.5 million to pay anyone for an epic scimitar of epicness, but I sure did spend a lot more on my first pair of dodge boots than what the super ninja dodge boots cost now! I also didn't have +4 armor with bonus to stealth, or really any great stealth gear, or a lot of things really. The simple fact is, no matter what is done the absolute richest will remain so, and will remain largely unaffected by things we do. However, I suppose you could say the 'middle class' of players that had some money and maybe some decent equipment took a hit, but I think that hit is a good one, when considered against the benefit to newer players.

*shrug* Based on what I have seen in game lately things are quite good. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Steve]

The Middle Class ALWAYS takes the biggest hit!!

Zing!!

EDIT: To add another bit to the Story: it also occurs to me that with the Epic Shop in, and the universal availability of those items for simply coin, one can argue that any item of Epic level numbers made by the RIG, is now far more valuable, because now it is a market of unique items version high-power-but-common items. Or, will be, until "next year" —says Chad—when crafting comes online.

Which will kinda be like a holy shit moment of epic proportions.

[Akroma666]

The Middle Class ALWAYS takes the biggest hit!!

Zing!!

[chad878262]

Or, will be, until "next year" —says Chad—when crafting comes online.

Wai----wha---huh? Have I ever given a solid date on crafting? Crafting has been tested and doesn't work in it's current format. Whenever Rasael makes some changes we can test it further, but I can't say definitively when it will get in. I may have said 'not before next year' or something to that effect, but all I can definitively state is that there is a 'prototype' as everyone knows, that QC characters are able to craft items (ie those with the QC tag, not our actual characters, thus no crafted items can be dropped, traded or otherwise) and that it is not currently ready for release. When Rasael and other dev's finish fixing the remaining bugs it is my HOPE that crafting becomes the primary next thing to work on, and I know several others in QC, like me that will jump all over re-testing it when it does. However, at the end of the day there has been and will be no timeline given. So there

[mrm3ntalist]

EDIT: To add another bit to the Story: it also occurs to me that with the Epic Shop in, and the universal availability of those items for simply coin, one can argue that any item of Epic level numbers made by the RIG, is now far more valuable, because now it is a market of unique items version high-power-but-common items.

Always something

Wasnt it before thought even worse? A market of unique items against junk. That only those with unique items had access to those items?

[Steve]

A market of unique items against junk.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

But to respond directly: I don't know if it was worse before, or really better now. That depends, in my opinion on the matter, the Current Rate in which Players—new, old, middle class—can acquire coin. And not just acquire, but maintain or increase that coin-based wealth.

As you pointed out, M3nt, you recently went on a dungeon run and sold off 10k worth of items. But did you use Mendel to do that? If so, I'm assuming to ran a dungeon appropriate to his Level and equipment.

So how is the actual Rate of Coin Gain for players starting from Level 1? Is or was there any expectation based on numbers, formulate by QC, when considering the costs for these Epic Shop Items? As well, considering that the "middle class" would lose considerable value in their items, which maybe were all they lucked out in finding or could literally find in the course of 3–4 years.

I know you're being a little cheeky in your responses—so am I—but yes, it WILL ALWAYS BE SOMETHING if things are not fully thought out. Maybe that is the point then you're making, which is fine. I'm hoping that if I was to go back through all the posts on the subject, someone from QC would have said "Yeah, its really not a complete solution, nor perfect, the Epic Shop, but...it does grant many Players toys they never could acquire otherwise and previously, so that is a gain for the Server. However, in that gain for the Server, some will feel a hard loss, and that simply has to be accepted."

You know, honesty spoken publicly goes a loooooong way.