Sorry to hear that you had a rough patch there Darkcloud777, and I'm glad you found a alternative. That's funny tho, the Phoenix Co's mission is to assist others who suffered from such a fate, right?
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Darkcloud777.
Also a side note about my post above yours, it was a neutral statement and not directed to anyone in particular. I guess I'm very tired of the back and forth here on the forums (to much negativity that branches to in-game). Telling others to go into time out over the forums is harder than in-game... in-game one could simply just cast hold person and silence.
I definitely agree that its unfortunate that the guilds all RP behind closed doors. I have had the sense that the server has very few players that are not new players or just another afk leaving to 30 before moving on to the next.
It sounds like this is actually not the case but the long time players are just shut up behind doors and hard to interact with.
I have to admit though, aside from DM events, there probably isn't much of an impetus for players to work together. I'm not sure how to do it, but it would be cool if there were special areas that were worth assaulting with lots of players in a way that made RP sense. I have no idea how such a thing could be implemented but it would be cool nonetheless.
Elspeth Silverleaf "Is a thing good because the gods say it is so? Or is there objective good in the universe?" Cherry Thistleknot "Cherry, like the tree, Druids like trees"
It’s not helpful to argue in absolutes. Especially when there are facts such as: Kraak Helzak doesn’t have locked doors! Literally!
Bu I am sensitive to the underlying issue being brought up. Kraak Helzak IS for Dwarves and others (gnomes and earth-born). But you should know it is more about Allegiance than anything else.
Which is essentially what every guild is about, right? And within allegiances, it makes perfect sense that plenty is allegiance-only and thus private.
However, Guilds should also have a public existence (to various extents, obviously, since some guilds are really cults and rely on major secrecy).
But if I’m reading right, some Players are asking guilds to be more present and show their worth, publicly. Alright, I hear it, and I’ll see what I can do (in relation to Kraak Helzak).
Steve wrote:It’s not helpful to argue in absolutes. Especially when there are facts such as: Kraak Helzak doesn’t have locked doors! Literally!
Bu I am sensitive to the underlying issue being brought up. Kraak Helzak IS for Dwarves and others (gnomes and earth-born). But you should know it is more about Allegiance than anything else.
Which is essentially what every guild is about, right? And within allegiances, it makes perfect sense that plenty is allegiance-only and thus private.
However, Guilds should also have a public existence (to various extents, obviously, since some guilds are really cults and rely on major secrecy).
But if I’m reading right, some Players are asking guilds to be more present and show their worth, publicly. Alright, I hear it, and I’ll see what I can do (in relation to Kraak Helzak).
This reminds me ... when are we getting Kraak Helzak's front doors locked? People aren't even wiping their feet when they come in uninvited anymore. Barn-raised, long-shanks ...
Relnor Ironfaar - Silver Defender of Clan Ironfaar Background - viewtopic.php?f=20&t=55066 Bramdur Ironfaar - War Chanter of Kraak Helzak
Drizzt, Cati-Brie, Wulfgar and Regis were not Dwarves and Bruenor let them in... Why wouldn't KH let in a human (or plane-touched that isn't earth genasi?).
If you want to join as a non-Dwarf, come up with an RP reason for it, then work toward that RP line with as many KH players as you can. Document it and send it to the DM Team with RP From the KH Dwarves indicating the worthiness of your PC to the King and I bet a non-Dwarf/Gnome/Earth Genasi very well could be admitted to the guild.
It's kinda frustrating in general when I see these statements that you should not be in a guild because it's only for dwarves or alignment doesn't match up or your RP is off or whatever. A big learning experience for me was about 9 months after having joined the server when Vendor Xon informed Cranston he would not be admitted to the Elder Circle. Cranston's back story was a human raised by a Shevarashen Wood Elf so even though I could not have it on his sheet as his patron it was approved that he could still pay homage to Shevarash (weather or not the Black Archer would listen is open for debate ) In any case, EC didn't accept those who worshiped gods of vengeance so Cranston was not accepted. IC he stormed about and got angry with Vendor, but OOC Touri and I were and always have remained cool the few times we get a chance to interact. RP is RP and it should not always be rainbows and butterflies, nor should it always be PvP/CvC outright conflict. Sometimes you don't get what you want, suck it up and deal with it! And honestly, had I not gone through that bit of RP with Vendor/Touri I would never have had the awesome interactions with Killington, Calodan and so many other great players with the Hunters of Vengeance.
I would say the same thing of Darkcloud's experience. While it may be frustrating she didn't get in to whatever guild she wanted to, Trust Company and now Phoenix Company seems in my eyes to have always been a guild with lots of player activity and DM support so that is something to both be proud of and continue to build and enjoy. If RP doesn't go your way you can either get frustrated about it OOC'ly and rage over things or you can take the IC slight and build some RP out of it. The latter is way more fun.
Was referring to Darkclouds post that she thought KH would take her main, but not a dwarf. Doesn't mean Terri could never join, just requires the RP to make it happen on both sides. Wasn't saying anything against anyone's post, just in general the thought that something 'can't be done cuz it's against established rules/lore'... Women and minorities used to not be allowed in prestigious golf clubs in the U.S...now they are! People had to make the real life effort to change that establishment so why would the RP expectation be any different!
Sorry if it came out differently, was not meaning to sound negative, more just throwing out there that focusing more on the RP to make something happen or IC reacting when things don't go your PC's way is far more enjoyable than lamenting about an IC (Or even OOC) denial to a guild. You can't control other players or their characters, you can only control how you react OOC and how your character reacts IC. OOC remembering it is a game and reacting IC based on your established character personality is way more fun than allowing it to OOC upset you and forget completely about the IC interaction.
my initial reaction was to fully support Cal and Darkcloud's concept of allowing limited DM ability to certain/qualified/whatever guild leadership. it is a really good idea and grants so much to the player base that the guild leaders can affect most. but my always-optimistic view realizes that this is a "perfect world" idea and we do not live in a "perfect world". that if we look in at the opposite of a "perfect world" perspective this is a huge can of worms that could bring to the head dm/dm team/guild leader a continuous supply of complaints and accusations of every possible manner. so i would be inclined to feel this would be somewhere in between where guild leaders would have a great avenue for the guild, but have to deal with the ramifications of having these responsibilities without authority of the democratic server political structure.
as a guild leader, this proposal is a great opportunity to get things done in a timely manner for our players, but could bring another and possibly very large burden upon us that further gets us away from doing the things we really want to be doing as guild leaders for our guildmates.
Disclaimer: BIASED
I honestly have a very soft spot for anything that involves Darkcloud and Touri. they essentially gave me this server by going out of their way to involve me in a whole aspect of the game that i had no idea existed. mentored in a way and had the patience to allow me to learn from a couple very good players and people. i cannot imagine a situation they would support that i would be a fool not to support as well.
As a casual visitor to the server and only joining a guild once I never saw the appeal here. Most of my time at events was standing back and watching what was going on since many of the events were scaled to the long-term players of the guild. I get that those that have been here for an extended period of time and spent all their spare time and effort into maximizing their experience on the server should have time to shine, but it felt like it was at the expense of most of the other individuals. Unfortunately, it was "you put in your time as well and you can join us in the fun instead of watching". It is not ideal experience and I never participated in an event where it was scaled down to lower level people.
In addition, gated content is always going to have participation be lower overall from the server majority because of the gate itself. Placing focal guilds behind one is definitely going to end up at a point of stagnation.
TL:DR- Casual player has not had a positive filthy casual experience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Alton Siadysseus - Adventuring defender of the Red Knight Herbert Gresley - Teleportation Specialist Gasten Keleel - Priest of Tempus (MIA)
Steve wrote:
But if I’m reading right, some Players are asking guilds to be more present and show their worth, publicly. Alright, I hear it, and I’ll see what I can do (in relation to Kraak Helzak).
I do appreciate that Steve, my argument is more about public representation to help others make contact that could be interested. It could be anything, a tattoo, badge, uniform, simply going on about "faction matters" in a tavern and how events around you might affect the one you represent. Who knows, one might walk up that feels the same and ask "How may we assist you?"
That's not for everyone, which I clearly understand. It just would be nice to see those that are more open to show a stronger presence when they can, and say "we are still around, contribute to the cause?"
Those are just a few examples, and as I said before, it's not for everyone.
EDIT: Those are less open could have a 3rd party broker/recruiter even.
As it is, the Server population is spread pretty thin over a lot of potential "hook up" Areas.
For what its worth, the Forum should really act as a vehicle for promotion and connection, and then manifested in-game at regular times or scheduled times.
Not to forget to mention that some of us actually take into account the physical distances between Locations, and what that would mean to "casually" be in the Troll Claw Hills on Monday, Nashkel on Tuesday, Roaringshore on Wednesday, etc.
Nonetheless, I like to err on the side of convenience when it means forwarding Role-play...though I do have my own limits. I must admit, however, that those "limits" mean less and less to me as it becomes obvious they add nothing special to the experience, nor are they rewarded for being exceptional RP or create any cause for more quality RP, than those with less limits (self-imposed, natch).
Anyway! If Guilds have an "open day/night" on a regular basis, that could help with "friendliness" and public representation. Many guilds don't exist to be public, or friendly, so take that as you will.
But the Big Issue here is whether Guilds really offer something special for Players, something more than what can be gained at the FAI Campfire, in terms of RP, in terms of Events, in terms of adventuring fun. What can a Guild build, that "going it solo" on BGTSCC is just impossible? Obviously, the past shows that a few Characters working together can a) get titles, b) get guild halls, c) get to kill the biggest baddy in the Server Wide Campaign. These are all interesting things to seek to "acquire" through guild participation. That said, not all Guilds/Factions will receive equal to other Guilds.
Be in a Guild to have fun, really. Don't expect much, and just do it cause you enjoy it. One literally cannot expect a damn thing from being in a Guild or Faction. What makes Guilds great is what there potential should be, in terms of the Server environment. Potential for RP, potential for changing the environment through RP. That's what makes being in a Guild great, in my humble opinion.
Steve wrote:
For what its worth, the Forum should really act as a vehicle for promotion and connection, and then manifested in-game at regular times or scheduled times.
I can agree 100% with that. Sadly tho, not all tend to be that way. A slight one, or few time rumor might be posted with little to nothing more after. I know that a few guilds have gone on break for reasons, and I don't blame them to be honest... I guess I need to be looking at things from a slightly different perspective with that said.
Well, some Guilds and Factions are dead, though they linger with a ghostly presence, implied presence.
On another note, there is no reason, using all the OOC tools we have at our disposal, to NOT be able to get in touch with Guilds/Factions, and determine if they are active, what they are doing, how they are doing it, and what openings are available to the curious player, all communicated OOC (and with limits to inner-guild/faction information, natch).
There should be also, for all intents, ways to gain quite a lot of information in-game, about Guilds. A bit more difficult, but not impossible.
Steve wrote:
There should be also, for all intents, ways to gain quite a lot of information in-game, about Guilds. A bit more difficult, but not impossible.
And it's not impossible as you said. And some should be lesser known in some areas I mean, to put things in a different perspective with a example here....
1) Use IC rumors and only rumors via forums/in-game in the appropriate locations to investigate who this group is.
2) Proceed after to reverse-interview the groups before making a choice on who to dedicate to.
I have in the past used OOC stuff from a guild/faction post in the appropriate threads we have here, and was in a bit of a loss after the fact on joining. It was a prime example of "what not to do"... the guild can ask the questions to the other willing to join, but the other being interviewed should also do the same.
Back in the day we used to have one DM assigned to every focal guilds.
Personally I had two, the thieves guild and Candlekeep.
What I tried to do to incorporate new players, was to give them 'hooks' which tied to these guilds arch quests, which would create a natural context for new adventurers to be approached by guilds. I think it was great.
