Page 7 of 11

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 am
by mar3usmc
raetin wrote:For example,
Random drow: Amon is a big meaniehead!
Amon: You vile, filthy, rothe! Apologize to me and scamper away to whatever hole you crawled out of or I will make your life very difficult, and very short. *eyes the random drow with burning anger while running a finger over his dagger's blade*

Outcome 1:
Random drow: Oh, I'm so sorry, you are obviously a very nice person! *runs away*
*finished!*

Outcome 2:
Random drow: Oh, please! Your socks smell funny!
Amon: *growls and steps forward, but sees a guard and steps back* You should pray we do not cross paths outside the city.
*10 minutes later, in the tunnels, a random drow bursts into flame while Amon laughs maniacally*

Outcome 3 (Conversation not occurring in the city):
*a random drow bursts into flame while Amon laughs maniacally*
No, no, no you have Amon all wrong. He isn't hot and flaming, and his eyes definitely don't burn. He is cold... cold to the very inner parts of his black empty soul. 8-)

But yea, I would make the "give them an out part" a bit more obvious than my earlier comment. I would probably ooc tell them "you need to run or get ready to fight" because yea, your stuff was too cheesy for Amon. He doesn't talk like that. :D

However, on fighting in the city, Sshamath is a city like any other. There will be some who do break the law. However, like other law breakers, they should face the IC consequences if caught in the act, which btw would be quite severe in Sshamath. The Conclave does not tolerate those who disobey them. Banishment ((not sure how to implement that)) or severe bodily mutilation ((probably would involve xp loss)) would be the most likely results. Death would be even more likely but we really can't implement that one.
Eviloth wrote:Not that when people see pc's like Amon, do they see a floating 30th level over there heads, but ususally if Amon chooses to show himself to you, he is lit up like a Christmas Tree with all of the magic.
Amon isn't level 30 btw, 28, and... I only have 4 buffs on ussually. Amon doesn't look like a christmas tree....does he :cry: . Yall need to stop picking on Amon, it ain't easy being evil. :twisted:

oh oh, and one more thing, there are no level 1 charnag maelthra. They have level requirements. Actually they have alot of requirements.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:14 am
by Ansient
A hypothetical level 1 Charnag should have plenty of authority in Sshamath. But because Sshamathian RP is largely nonexistent--let's be honest, folks--and people basically treat the city like a neutral gas station, the "tunnel law" turns out to be much more important... if that Charnag is interested in ever advancing beyond level 1. And that's where epic levels start to matter a tad more than fancy pants political ranks ; )

It's not that the Charnag doesn't have power in Sshamath... it's just that their power turns out to be irrelevant to most of what gets played out around here.

I'm not saying this is a good thing. But I do think we should spend time thinking about the root cause rather than bemoaning the symptom of epic levels mattering more.

If we want players to care about Sshamathian RP, we need to make it interesting. There need to be goings-on, and they need to be fun. Otherwise the "neutral gas station" phenomenon is going to continue no matter what gets said here.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:26 pm
by Eviloth
Honestly I just wish the Charnag was more involved. Once and a while I'll make a bordering anti-conclave statement and if a DM sees it he'll take control of a guard and use the opportunity to insult me and well, I then have to take it. Which is fine, I don't want to piss off the Charnag, I merely just deal with it.

However, that rarely happens. However I was thinking about this from a House member view. You have the Charnag, the Conclave, and Bregan Darthe(or however you spell it). If people started playing in them, save for the Conclave(because you will most likely become an NPC), then I think we could get more RP opportunity as well down there. Maybe we can get the requirements posted in this forum for the Charnag and Bregan Daerthe?

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:12 pm
by Molag__Bal
I searched the guild forums for the Charnag thread, and unless I am blind I think that it was deleted. Our private forums have IC RP threads for the most part, and have nothing related to the lore of the Charnag, or the entrance requirements.

From memory, I believe that the level requirement was 10 or 15. No divine casters allowed, no Monks and I think that's about it. Perhaps if anyone on the staff reads this they could try to find out where the Charnag guild thread went (the public one)?

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:09 pm
by Ansient
Apparently the whole thread was axed due to a regrettable argument about an attack in Sshamath I was involved in (no choice of my own, but still, apologies for my part in that!)

Here is a quote from the old forum...
adzling wrote:The Charnag Maelthra will be starting up shortly and accepting applications for membership.
You should approach Cel'lith Morcane in game.
Below is a description of who they are, what their function is, and their acceptance requirements.

The Charnag Maelthra (translation "Deep Dragons")

This is the political and military police arm of the Conclave.
It's main role is to enforce the will of the Conclave through administering the day-to-day implementation of Sshamath's "laws" and the Conclave's "edicts". Upon admission initiates swear an oath to follow the directives of the Conclave whatever their personal beliefs.

In addition they are charged with supporting the Sshamathian Guard in times of crisis to protect the city from dangers, real and perceived. They are often sent out of the city on important errands for the Conclave acting as bodyguards to high-ranking emissaries, to retrieve artifacts or anywhere the Conclave needs a representative. When a high ranking drow needs to be detained or otherwise punished due to a ruling of the Conclave the Charnage Maelthra are sent to collect them.

They are given much latitude in their work as long as they do not deviate from their general mission of protecting the Conclave, the city of Sshamath and ensuring the Conclave's will is carried out.

It is important to note that unlike a police force on the surface (like the flaming fist for example) "justice" is not important to the Conclave nor the Charnag Maelthra. They are tasked with ensuring the smooth functioning of the city and the trade that flows through it, not "upholding" any law. Anything that might threaten this is to be dealt with, quickly.

This means that if they were to encounter a fight or other dangerous display in public they would likely put a stop to it, with minimal violence if possible. They could direct the combatants "to take it outside the city gates", subject them to an on the spot fine or arbitrary imprisonment. This power of summary judgement means that they are feared and avoided by the majority of the citizenry, only those drow holding very high rank are safe from their on-the-spot "justice".
Once imprisoned it is up to the Conclave to decide how long the prisoner remains there, the Charnag Maelthra has done their duty simply stopping the incident that could have endangered the city and/or trade.
Repeat offenders are at best simply banished from the city, at worst removed to the Charnage Maelthra's dungeon for a long, slow, lingering death.

Although they have great latitude in how they discharge their duty they tend to act very conservatively, at least in public. Excessive displays of force are in themselves bad for business and so they tend to rely on diplomacy or threats as appropriate. Only when these approaches fail do they fall back on violence. However once engaged they hold little back as it usually means that the offender has not taken the appropriate position of deference to them, and by extension the Conclave. They are not restrained by a normal law officer's view of public safety and respect for the individual. This can make them very dangerous to cross.

As part of the Conclave's views on practitioners of the "Art" they must ensure that all races capable of casting arcane magic remain free and not subject to slavery. This extends to affording them the basic right of being safe from harm when within the city. While it is perfectly fine for a drow to exhibit his racist tendencies towards the other resident races of Sshamath through verbal taunts if they cross the line to physical or magical violence the Charnag Maelthra will get involved. They care little if there was good reason for the attack, they only care that it stops immediately so that business isn't damaged.

This shouldn't be taken to mean that it is possible for a non-drow to continually taunt or embarrass an illythiri without threat of reprisal. All non-drow are, after all, guests in the city. They are resident non-citizens. In such instances the Charnag Maelthra will simply impose a fine on the offender to be paid to the offended party as recompense. This fine is scaled according to the severity of the offence but it typically will not exceed 500 gold. In the event that the offender cannot pay they will be sentenced to debtors jail to work off their fine.

Membership is limited to pure-bred illythiri; half-breeds and non-drow are not accepted. Due to the oath of fealty they must swear (and the Conclave's bias) females and divine casters are barred from joining.

Membership requirements: Level 10 or above
Any non-divine caster (rangers & blackguards are ok, clerics and druids are not).
No monks (their oath of loyalty to their order precludes it).
Males only.
Applicants who have some knowledge of the art (arcane casters) are preferred.
Sorcerers, bards & warlocks are accepted but are not viewed as positively as arcane casters.

An initiation test/mission is required for applicants.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:10 pm
by Vekin
Membership is limited to pure-bred illythiri; half-breeds and non-drow are not accepted. Due to the oath of fealty they must swear (and the Conclave's bias) females and divine casters are barred from joining.
.
Out of interest why would the Charnag Maelthra be limited to males only? Females wizards hold seats on the conclave so it seems a bit strange that female would be barred from serving in the conclaves police.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:27 pm
by Molag__Bal
Ansient wrote:Apparently the whole thread was axed due to a regrettable argument about an attack in Sshamath I was involved in (no choice of my own, but still, apologies for my part in that!)
Damn, I thought Jinx was only going to remove the argument sections...that sucks, as there was a lot of great information in that thread.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:50 pm
by Stricker9313
Eviloth wrote:
Ideally though I do wish there was some way to maybe motivate lowbies to at least IC respect their better.

yeah this should be true. I've had lowbies run around and trash talk me for the past week and a half :evil:

then when you give them a warning and an occ out to pvp they just dont back down and die...and guess what! there still there being annoying :x wish there was some punishment for that at least

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:12 pm
by Izz'orgoll
Zealote wrote:[sarcasm]
Random Drow: You Noqu'afin bitch boy!
Sladariel: ((OOC: You have five seconds to run or I will kill you. That is your OOC Out))
Random Drow: ((Whut? Huh? You can't kill me! Im a citizen of - *Spits blood as he gets his throat slit*

End of interaction.

Edit: Oh, and if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. All the rest is just poor, bad, sucky RP to support poor, bad, sucky players, childish hiding behind petty rules, trumping RP as they see fit, with the excuse of some sort of kumbaya feeling that doesn't belong to Drow society.
quoted for awesomeness!

I do believe all Lolthites have felt the searing glare of Izzy, iff not felt the sting of his blades....

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it?

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:46 pm
by Eviloth
Izzul my goal is to smite thee!

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:59 pm
by Molag__Bal
raetin managed to restore the Charnag Maelthra public guild thread. So any of you wanting to find out about the CM can read about it here: http://bgtscc.fomwaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=369

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:19 pm
by TheVoid
Maybe build infrastructure in the City? Make roles in city government that allow players to enforce and represent the culture of Sshamath. Law enforcement is a good start, even drow cities have laws and those who enforce them and protect the city. Somehow I don't see Charnag wizards deeply involved in garrison duty or street patrol. This leaves roles for alot of PC's that don't fit the wizardly type to join the exclusive Conclave.

I think we should build more roles to represent how the city is governed. Right now, Sshamath has no direction and the Houses of Lloth worshippers do. Which is not surprising, since Lloth = Drow and 99% of all the material written about dark elves is centered around her. So I am not surprised that players feel inclined to cite that material as reference for their Drow PC's. What we have to do to counter this or at least balance it, is too engage players with Sshamath's own lore and let them have ownership of their roles in underdark society.

It's funny that we allow House Drow PC's to use powerful titles such as "Matron Mother of House XYZ, High Priestess, First Daughter, Yathran" titles that hold huge amounts of political and familial influence not to mention extreme favor with their deity. But we can't have a PC member of the conclave unless they give up their character? Matron Mother's are not exactly a dime a dozen, some take millenias to achieve and hold that title let alone the countless sacrifices that their omnipotent sadistic god, demands from them to maintain that place of favor.

You want to keep Llothilites and unruly drow in check? Be a guard, peace keeper, law enforcement officer, arbitrator/judge, politician, etc... part of the functioning gears in the machine of government. Every society has government, period.... that legislates, carries-out, and enforces the laws and keep things balanced (less chaotic) for it's citizens. This way the VALUES of the community are represented at all times.

Let players have ownership of their roles in the community and keep an eye on where they take things. Their shouldn't be so many restrictions to play a high ranking PC in an already playable and established faction as long as the pc meets/exceeds all the requirements. :P

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:15 pm
by Ansient
We have a Charnag guild for law enforcement. Interested players need only join and be active and successful in the role.
TheVoid wrote:But we can't have a PC member of the conclave unless they give up their character?
Just like they can't play a Duke of Baldur's Gate, players cannot hold a seat on the Conclave's ruling council. They can't be the head of a school of magic or similar. So that's roughly 13 positions in Sshamath that are reserved for NPCs.

But they can do anything under this. There are plenty of high ranking positions short of being part of the council.

Hence my recommendation that interested players step up and organize a guild around one of the schools.

mar3usmc is the only person I'm aware of who's started this, for the School of Necromancy in his case. Joining his guild would be great if you don't have the desire to organize your own rival school:
mar3usmc wrote:The school as some of you know is finished and has been implemented. [... a] new thread will go over all the details for joining the school of Necromancy as an Officer (pure mage), warrant officer (near pure mage), or an Enlisted (retainer types with few or no magic capabilities).

As other schools are built their requirements and rank system will be established.
Essentially I'm not interested in seeing PCs rise to high ranking positions until they first lead their own successful group of PCs who are contributing to the world.

Players just need to organize and get out there and do this. It's a mater of player activity and will and reasonable execution.

Staff-imposed restrictions aren't holding anyone back. Get to work! :P
TheVoid wrote:It's funny that we allow House Drow PC's to use powerful titles such as "Matron Mother of House XYZ, High Priestess, First Daughter, Yathran" titles that hold huge amounts of political and familial influence not to mention extreme favor with their deity. [..] Matron Mother's are not exactly a dime a dozen, some take millenias to achieve and hold that title let alone the countless sacrifices that their omnipotent sadistic god, demands from them to maintain that place of favor.
Yathrin just means priestess. Any cleric can become a priestess of Lolth if she passes the goddess's tests. The same goes for a High Priestess (Yathtallar) which involves further tests, including naughty stuff with a demon.

Matron Mother, First Daughter, House Wizard, House Weaponmaster etc. are not recognized titles in Sshamath. They are only as useful as the people they lead and serve.

Anyone down here can claim to be a Matron, just like anyone up on the surface can claim to be a Lord or Lady of some sort. But it's a meaningless title without the house and power to go with it.

In the future when we add a Lolthite city like Ched Nasad, the matron of its ruling house will be an NPC. There will be NPC matrons of some other houses as well.

Players will be able to run their own houses and jockey for favor underneath, but we won't have a PC matron ruling the city anymore than we have PCs ruling Sshamath and Baldur's Gate.

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:25 pm
by mar3usmc
I pretty much agree with ansient on all of that. Sorry I haven't set up all the schools and all the rules for how they organize themselves, but that is alot of the work and there is no lore on the matter.

Feel free role play being a member of another school in Sshamath besided the school of Necromancy if you like. All I ask is that you roleplay it from humble beginnings like I did. I started my Roleplay with Amon as a student from the school (basically a recruit in bootcamp) and worked my way up, even being demoted (the big crash erased Amon, had to start all over :cry: . So I RPed it that he failed and Tsabrak personally punished him and demoted him for it) , and gave myself missions in order to achieve the next rank like studying the varieties of surface creatures or investigating the undead in the new tomb that was put on the surface. Now I roleplay him as a High Necromancer of the school, one rank below master. So he still has a bit to go.

You may do so if you wish but I would suggest not attempting to role play some high ranking wizard in sshamath as a level 1 wizard or that you are of some importance. You are no better than some guy off the street that can cast a few cantrips, which is not impressive, nor representative of what a high ranking wizard of a school would be capable of.

If you wish to get involved with the Charnag Maelthra understand that they are the elite of the gaurd in Sshamath and as such have high requirements for joining. They usually recruit or take applicants from the schools, which train and provide the standing army. So if you wish to get involved with the Charnag first understand thier requirements and then go ahead and get your PC involved with one of the schools as either an enlisted troop, or a wizard (officer). Once you meet the level requirements then you would need to contact Adzling here in the forums as he is the leader of the Charnag.

Ok, back to work, ttyl

Re: Rebuilding the RP in the Underdark - How are we doing it

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:30 am
by adzling
i'd be happy to get flesh out some detail on the hierarchies of the various schools of magic and how PCs could get involved if the team is interested.

you know me i'm a drow lore nut ;-)