Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:16 pm Tell THAT to the mobs.

This is the defining point of a competitive game: there will be at least one winner and at least one loser in the end.

BG is many - good - things. It is not competitive though. Not even close on being one, so in a way there doesnt need to be a loser.

mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:55 pm

Steve wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:16 pm Tell THAT to the mobs.

This is the defining point of a competitive game: there will be at least one winner and at least one loser in the end.

BG is many - good - things. It is not competitive though. Not even close on being one, so in a way there doesnt need to be a loser.

While this is off-topic and I'll add my own last word then drop it, I personally believe that if there WAS more winning and losing, between Players, NPCs, DMs, etc., it would make for a FAR MORE interesting game, than the one we currently have, which is Infinite Existence and dump-stat builds that undermine the RP that is actually presented in order to ALWAYS win, especially by working incessantly to jack the numbers, EVEN THOUGH a player is highly unlikely to ever have to roll the Dice to determine the outcome, of anything.

I do realize, for some, that is a good thing. But for me, losing in a game—which is NOT RL—allows me to train, to study, to apply knowledge, to be tactful, to be creative.

Chugging CL 30 elixirs undermines any aspect of skill building. THAT shit that gets put IG poorly thought out, or worse, intentionally done, "busts" this game more than anything. Anything except for M3nt's builds!!!

Back on Topic!

Trying for Toxicity for Science!! (big thanks to Xorena for the donations to the science project).

Master Alchemist BGTSCC wiki wrote:When imbibing elixirs toxic effects may occur. These vary depending on the level of toxicity and previous potions imbibed. The more toxic, the harsher the effect. If this occurs in combat it may severely incapacitate you, leading to death. In most cases you will be able to safely imbibe two elixirs. You will however need to consult with your local master alchemist if this is safe or will likely lead to trouble. Some elixirs don't combine well with others...

Elixir Test #1:

Taking cl 30 Owl’s Insight (0 Toxicity), then cl 30 Tortoise Shell (17 Toxicity), then cl 30 True Seeing (19 Toxicity).
Result: Toxicity of 36 (no effect on PC test subject)
Then taking cl 30 Aura of Vitality (15 toxicity (=51 total now))
Result: *Your stomach rumbles, the elixir has triggered a toxic effect* Effect = Movement Speed Decreased on CS.
Then taking cl 30 Pass without Trace (20 toxicity) (= 71 total now)
Result: *Your stomach rumbles, the elixir has triggered a toxic effect* Effect = same / continued Movement Speed Decreased on CS, but nothing additional
Then taking cl 16 Magic Vestment (24 toxicity (= 95 total now)
Result: *Your stomach rumbles, the elixir has triggered a toxic effect* + “Ugh?” auto-emote from test PC. Additional effect is Dexterity reduced to 0 (that’s ZERO!) on CS, for less than 2 minutes.
Then taking cl 16 Gaseous Form (15 toxicity (= 110 total now)
Result: *Your stomach rumbles, the elixir has triggered a toxic effect* + “Where?” auto-emote from test PC. Additional effect is Dexterity reduced to 0 (that’s ZERO!) on CS, for less than 2 minutes…BUT, the real effect is that with DEX @ 0, the test PC cannot move, nor can they use any other items, like a potion of Restoration. PC is essentially paralyzed. Returns a Combat Log message “PC is unable to move due to a status effect.

Review: From results, a PC must accrue through a stacking of consuming of elixirs >71 and <95 points of toxicity build up to gain an effect that is, essentially, life threatening IF AND ONLY IF said PC was in combat. Just chugging elixirs in order to burn through piles of coin, won’t kill a PC by sheer toxicity. Or maybe it would, if I could keep chugging, but as the test shows, after receiving DEX-to-0 effect, it’s just paralyzation for +/- 2 minutes.

Lesser Restoration potion does not lower total Toxicity level, so after regaining movement and DEX, should a PC drink another elixir, then it is repeat of the above effect. Resting appears to reset everything.

So...drink em if you got em boys and girls!!

Thank you to Steve and Xorena for the testing.

It sounds like there are penalty breakpoints for toxicity

(40-50) imparts a move penalty - permanently or just for <20 rounds like the other effects? can it be bypassed by FoM?
(72-95) imparts a Dexterity penalty to zero for <20 rounds (-5 AC or more, various other implications)
(100+) imparts a paralysis effect for <20 rounds. - Can it be bypassed by FoM?

It looks like a given potion imposes 15-25 toxicity, and I would surmise that that the effect steps are every 25 toxicity (50/75/100) for those beyond the move penalty.

Given that the toxicity penalties apply to characters other than the initial alchemist that brewed them, I suppose the question would be:
"Is the toxicity system worth reviewing?"
I think it is, both for general visibility, and for more consistent and relevant applications, such as making a 25 toxicity effect or reducing the steps to 20/40/60/80, etc.
Having a more consistent correlation between CL and toxicity gain (Such as "Tox = CL" or similar ratio) would also contribute a factor in encouraging lower CL elixirs, if the user seeks to use more of them. (As it currently stands, lower CL Elixirs in Steve's testing demonstrated both lower and higher Toxicity than CL 30)

As to Toxicity having effects in combat, I would be of the opinion of applying toxicity effects to any potions with a Spell level of 4 or greater. This would include things like Potions of Heal, which would be negligable impact when drunk without Elixirs buffs but become potentially quite risky with Elixirs.

I personally really like the idea of raising the toxicity potency and negative effects vs hard nerfing so drastically like scrolls ended up getting.

Or just find a pocket druid giving free services and suffer no toxicity.

opens up great RP for any druids in the city that wants to help others adventuring

Ewe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:54 pm You know what's busted? Level 1 with all +4 gear and SR enough to be immune to all spells. That literally breaks the content more than anything we have in end-game.

However, people can play how they want, if they want an easier time they can cheese things a million different ways. If they want a more authentic experience they can choose that route too. That's why we have the permadeath system, muling allowed, so on.

You can choose to use elixirs or not, it's up to you. No one is forcing you to use them. Going after everything that is fun in the game and corralling it in just because you think "nothing else like this exists" just seeks to streamline the game, limit options, and quite frankly make for a more bland experience.

I'm honestly kind of tired of nerf this or nerf that threads that keep popping up.

+10²⁴

Amen.

Another thread that proves my point:
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=77736