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Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:11 am
by Steve
I don’t disagree with you, YW. The only problem is that going from a wet noodle to epic demigod is not even challenging, it just requires RL time. Just time. That is hardly challenging for what results, imho.
Right now, on a role-play server, a player can power level in less then a month to 30, without any actual RP. Okay, maybe a tertiary “welcome traveler, let us hunt together!”
In this context, Leveling is just stupid.
If the issue isn’t about getting endgame power as soon as possible for convenience, then what is it really about? Better role-play?
If Level 30 gives the better/best role-play possible, then yes, let’s abolish leveling altogether, and just Character build through glorified avatar chat.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:12 am
by Lockonnow
can we make a BG server for only lvl 3 then we can see how many there and play in the send box?
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:16 am
by RavenCredale
My thoughts on leveling as a New Player to this server (technically I've been around for some months now but I'm still considered New):
1.) I get the "framework" of rp and enjoy it greatly when it's not limited to just a few simple words in passing. However I play characters that will listen to conversations on topics they're not familiar with to try and understand them. On top of that, I enjoy seeing XP rewarded for rp. It's much better than seeing the lower amounts from killing monsters.
2.) My characters, no matter who it is, are all fishers by hobby! I have sat at fishing spots and actually calculated the Cap on Fishing XP (roughly around 2k or 2.5k). When I put in my little player scry note that I'm fishing, I'm finish to attempt to get the last bit of XP I need for level. Couple that with rp xp and it's pretty well rounded even when you don't catch anything.
C.) I enjoy taking my time getting to the next level. I cannot stand the hive mind "rush the enemy. Go go go maggots!" Drill Sargent process. I like to stop, smell the roses, get a small octopus latched onto my characters face from fishing for RP flair. I don't get why others feel like they need to rush to get ahead. Rushing things takes the fun out of the game. It just turns into an other "Geist Train" (those of you who have been on nwn1 Potm might understand the reference. Those who don't, basically you're going from dungeon to dungeon all in one day power leveling with 0 RP involved and using Discord to communicate instead of doing so in-game. Basic MMO or WoW hive mind).
Now I expect this to be picked or torn apart because someone will take this all out of context as humans like to do, but this is all just my thoughts on things involving the state of leveling. People will power level and people will take their time. What's more important is that people have fun here right?
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:27 am
by Young Werther
RavenCredale wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:16 am
My thoughts on leveling as a New Player to this server (technically I've been around for some months now but I'm still considered New):
1.) I get the "framework" of rp and enjoy it greatly when it's not limited to just a few simple words in passing. However I play characters that will listen to conversations on topics they're not familiar with to try and understand them. On top of that, I enjoy seeing XP rewarded for rp. It's much better than seeing the lower amounts from killing monsters.
2.) My characters, no matter who it is, are all fishers by hobby! I have sat at fishing spots and actually calculated the Cap on Fishing XP (roughly around 2k or 2.5k). When I put in my little player scry note that I'm fishing, I'm finish to attempt to get the last bit of XP I need for level. Couple that with rp xp and it's pretty well rounded even when you don't catch anything.
C.) I enjoy taking my time getting to the next level. I cannot stand the hive mind "rush the enemy. Go go go maggots!" Drill Sargent process. I like to stop, smell the roses, get a small octopus latched onto my characters face from fishing for RP flair. I don't get why others feel like they need to rush to get ahead. Rushing things takes the fun out of the game. It just turns into an other "Geist Train" (those of you who have been on nwn1 Potm might understand the reference. Those who don't, basically you're going from dungeon to dungeon all in one day power leveling with 0 RP involved and using Discord to communicate instead of doing so in-game. Basic MMO or WoW hive mind).
Now I expect this to be picked or torn apart because someone will take this all out of context as humans like to do, but this is all just my thoughts on things involving the state of leveling. People will power level and people will take their time. What's more important is that people have fun here right?
Since you seem to want feedback from humans I will give you my human feedback.
You seem new. Yes, take your time and smell the roses. I did that too and it was the best time I ever had on this server. I think that's the point the people who expect us to play this game the slow way keep making. Doesn't matter for me anymore. I have a life outside this game I care 99.5% more about and it's been 10+ years for me now. I hope you can come back in 10 years and have insights then, too. I'm much more direct and nuanced into what I like to do here now. BTW fishing is lame ig and IRL. Sorry, Whistler. :PPPPP
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:42 am
by Rinzler
The Whistler wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 am
Aaand now Forgotten City is gutted also. Well done.
The timing of this decision is ironic based on the theme of this thread.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:07 pm
by Lambe
Rinzler wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:42 am
The Whistler wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 am
Aaand now Forgotten City is gutted also. Well done.
The timing of this decision is ironic based on the theme of this thread.
Not quite. Discussion about Forgotten City began days before this thread started. Don't look at anything to be retaliatory because they are not. Now if the changes are unbalanced, then that could be discussed.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:11 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:11 am
it just requires RL time. Just time.
For the non power grinder, that time isn't refunded very well, worsened if the effort invested in that time wasn't rewarded well either.
Lockonnow wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:12 am
can we make a BG server for only lvl 3 then we can see how many there and play in the send box?
Dropping the player levels isn't a solution, it's a rug to drag over one problem and create many new ones.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:15 pm
by Rain
Aspect of Sorrow wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:11 pm
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:11 am
it just requires RL time. Just time.
For the non power grinder, that time isn't refunded very well, worsened if the effort invested in that time wasn't rewarded well either.
Even for the power grinder that time is not rewarded well... There is no real reward in power leveling to 30 with nothing to your name IC. Your just rando #78 on the server who happeneds to be a powerful wizard... of many...
As many have pointed out on the tread already. There should be more prestige in the leveling process and the process of establishing your legacy as a lvl 30.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:21 pm
by Steve
Rain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:15 pm
As many have pointed out on the tread already. There should be more prestige in the leveling process and the process of establishing your legacy as a lvl 30.
If memory serves me correctly, this PC—who ended up a SAINT—was never more than level 7. At least that was the epic rumor!!!
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3841&p=44527
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:23 pm
by Rain
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:21 pm
Rain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:15 pm
As many have pointed out on the tread already. There should be more prestige in the leveling process and the process of establishing your legacy as a lvl 30.
If memory serves me correctly, this PC—who ended up a SAINT—was never more than level 7. At least that was the epic rumor!!!
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3841&p=44527
A saint? At lvl 7? Definitely DM favoritism there.
Jokes.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:33 pm
by Steve
Rain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:23 pm
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:21 pm
Rain wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:15 pm
As many have pointed out on the tread already. There should be more prestige in the leveling process and the process of establishing your legacy as a lvl 30.
If memory serves me correctly, this PC—who ended up a SAINT—was never more than level 7. At least that was the epic rumor!!!
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3841&p=44527
A saint? At lvl 7? Definitely DM favoritism there.
Jokes.
LOL. But anyone who wrote that much RP and had such an affect IG, probably deserves it.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:47 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
Steve wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:38 am
Aspect of Sorrow wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:03 am
If it's perceived that the playerbase majority is in the epics the priority for most is to have their character reach a minimum of that in order to participate in the same world as their counterparts.
One doesn’t need to be the “appropriate” Level to role-play with any other Character or group. Even being vastly different in IC power and experience IS a thing to role-play. If it is true that the only interesting challenge and the only interesting RP is to be had at Level 30, then there is a fundamental problem both with the Server AND the players on it.
Grinding however, yes, there are caps for “appropriate” group leveling. So if it’s not really THE paradigm to slow down leveling intentionally, then the simple REMOVAL of XP throttling in groups based on Level range, is the answer for a more varied experience of Lowbies and Epics adventuring together.
The point of the statement isn't that you cannot have your character involved entirely, but mechanically even 30s have trouble when encountering 30 level content, moreso in NPC adjusted DM spawns, let alone the lower levels - since the discussion is predominantly the mechanical side here.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:57 pm
by DaloLorn
1.) I get the "framework" of rp and enjoy it greatly when it's not limited to just a few simple words in passing. However I play characters that will listen to conversations on topics they're not familiar with to try and understand them. On top of that, I enjoy seeing XP rewarded for rp. It's much better than seeing the lower amounts from killing monsters.
I remember there was talk of trying to spread the XP around a bit, instead of requiring each participant to forcibly make trivial emotes and insignificant comments just for the sake of keeping RP XP vaguely on cooldown. I wonder if that might be worth reviving...
2.) My characters, no matter who it is, are all fishers by hobby! I have sat at fishing spots and actually calculated the Cap on Fishing XP (roughly around 2k or 2.5k). When I put in my little player scry note that I'm fishing, I'm finish to attempt to get the last bit of XP I need for level. Couple that with rp xp and it's pretty well rounded even when you don't catch anything.
Boo, fishing! (Okay, no, some of mine did it, but we really do need other options.)
C.) I enjoy taking my time getting to the next level. I cannot stand the hive mind "rush the enemy. Go go go maggots!" Drill Sargent process. I like to stop, smell the roses, get a small octopus latched onto my characters face from fishing for RP flair. I don't get why others feel like they need to rush to get ahead. Rushing things takes the fun out of the game. It just turns into an other "Geist Train" (those of you who have been on nwn1 Potm might understand the reference. Those who don't, basically you're going from dungeon to dungeon all in one day power leveling with 0 RP involved and using Discord to communicate instead of doing so in-game. Basic MMO or WoW hive mind).
The Geist Trains... oh, god. I could agree to joining those,
once in a while. (The XP rate softcap and later hardcap helped discourage it somewhat, as did the fact that RP XP ignored the cap, and that groups that large meant its individual members would get shit for profit on account of not having BG's personal chest thing.) I know I do here, though not to the same extent, which is ironic given BG's greatly superior support for it.
Once in a while. That stuff is soul-sucking if it's all you do, which is why I pointedly look for other things to do.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:01 pm
by Józef Taktyka
On a side note, removing the lvl restricion between the PCs so that low and high lvls can grind together and low-lvl gain XP is IMO good idea. People could at least have bigger chances to meet up and create reletionships.
Re: The State of Leveling
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:04 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
Józef Taktyka wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:01 pm
On a side note, removing the lvl restricion between the PCs so that low and high lvls can grind together and low-lvl gain XP is IMO good idea. People could at least have bigger chances to meet up and create reletionships.
Some manner of penalty should be involved, not granting full 50 XP to the lower leveled player standing in proximity to save or die DC 30 AoEs in CR10.