New Players / Player Retention and "getting the word out" about BGTSCC

[selhan]

In my POV , I read some of the comments the expression of shock causes me winkles! Am I even playin on the same server I wonder? lol

0. I avoid bad Rp/Trolls and Metagamers!
1. I have plenty of fun
2. I get plenty of Rp
3. I'm on oceanic Time Zone, I should be the one with complaints!
4. I resurrected a dead map
5. I swing rp in other areas that I DONT regularly rp at.
6. I have my fair share of DM events even WITH MY TIME ZONE.
7. I joined the Dev Team so I can give areas a fresh look for everybody
8. In two years I've made 451 Goblet Posts with 43695 reviews!
9. I spread rumors, I seep clues to DM plots around to rper's
10. I post about most of my RP!
11. I barely LOOT cause so much RP!
12. I joined other Discords to try to promote our Server! Ask Steve he did the same!
13. I go to other servers trying to convince players to try our server! (Some do, some dont, some try but dont like ppls attitudes, personality ic or
ooc, or dont like the rules or some of the mechanics))
14. I enjoy many of the beautiful maps, I dont want to reduce it, I want to fill it up with people or die trying!
15. I work 9 hours a day 5 days a week, and I still manage to put in time to train and log in and play this game sometimes other games.
16. I'm far more busier in this server than many people would even know!
17. I need an rcr but I need DM assistance for my bound Items
18. Pass me the rum I feel like im becoming a QQer.
19. September will make it three years of bartending RP! So to all you people that thought I wouldnt keep it up for a few weeks..Go to Fist Prison
and RP a prisoner for a Month! just because your predictions have FAILED!
20. I
AM
STILL
BRINGING IT!

What Game are you people playing?!!!!

OH and before I forget..

FOR THE GLORY OF AMN!

[Zanniej]

---snip---

I'm not sure you count as the average BG experience. I think you count as the example of what it can be

But I do think you very much prove the point that it does indeed require input and effort. But if you put in the time and effort, you will get rewarded. I applaud you for leading by example!

Regardless, I've read a couple of recurring points that are definitely interesting to do something with. Some of those will have to come from staff, some can definitely use a player's touch (or anyone willing, really).

In short, those that jump to mind now:

Requiring the staff's touch

• Prevent changes from hanging by lack of agreement/activity
• More focus on smaller events, making the server feel more alive
• Perhaps a bit more of a set direction

Requiring anyone's touch

• Advertisement
• Offering concrete solutions
• Carrying the changes, to get done

I think the most important at this stage, is turning the points mentioned into actionable little projects. What is the problem, what is a solution, and who's going to carry it? Carrying it doesn't mean doing all the work on your own, it means making sure the work gets done.

I'll see what I can do in the top 3 points, but would love input of others as well.

[blazerules]

• More focus on smaller events, making the server feel more alive
• Perhaps a bit more of a set direction

To add to this, I think DM Mimics Amn plot does an absolutely outstanding job here. It has been amazing in both the story aspect and the activity it brings. There are many angles one can tackle it from, it brings in a lot of flavored RP and makes the world feel very alive. All while of course giving people direction.

The only thing really bringing it down is that it's an Amn plot rather than a Sword Coast plot and as such more easily ignored. As it doesn't directly effect the vast majority of people.

But even with this it does an amazing job on all counts. Perhaps a bit too good of a job because I feel like DM Mimic might be heavily overworked


So I don't think it's that we need small events specifically. But more likely things that tie in to the strongest aspect of Persistent RP games: The ability to effect change in the world. That's probably the most compelling thing about the Amn plot, and the little ways people can just chip in to effect small and big changes has been outstanding imho. Like the player led initiative for food aid by Nicho.

[LazyTrain]

Hey folks, if you're not going to contribute to the actual conversation in this thread, and just derail it into flaming the staff, players, and push unsubstantiated rumours and drama, maybe you should consider moving along somewhere else to spend that energy. We dont want to have to lock the thread here. Lets keep things friendly and constructive.

Thanks !

Frankly, I think my post highlighted a lot of genuine issues people have, but they can't talk about because things like this happen when you don't sugar-coat things for the community. I'm sorry you took offense to my post, but calling down the thought-police to fully remove a post that was meant to give genuine feedback on areas that this server struggles with LITERALLY proved my point.

Y'all want the server to improve and gain traction again, but when someone sits there and gives you genuine reasons new players might get (or have gotten) turned away, you have it deleted because you didn't like the tone? It makes no sense. I was here for about 3 years in total and between me and my overall friend group we brought at least a dozen people to try this server over that time, and those were a majority of the reasons people turned around and didn't come back, including a friend who wanted to Dev for the team but was turned off of it because someone literally accused them of spying for me because homie had beef with me.

You may as well lock down the thread because you don't want actual feedback, you want to be told everything is fine and things will just fix themselves. Brush every criticism and bit of feedback that isn't dipped in your favourite flavor of bullcrap as "trolling" and "flaming". This is the kind of word you're getting out:

"This server has an over-moderation problem sometimes so people can't actually talk about their issues and highlight what might need to be done to give new players a good first experience"
-- This expression of feedback has been removed by Moderators.

[Azroth]

People need to ask themselves what they have not been doing rather than what they are, and then a solution to a problem will arise.

People enjoy stability and routine.

There's a few issues with the social dynamic that's repetitive that being:
- mix playstyle want/need and they clash a lot creating it's own set of issues.
- people realizing if the wheel squeaks long enough they get what they want, and change happens for better or worse, but not realize at what cost did it take to even get there.

That aside, lot of problems I see are less mechanical and more process based and or a lack of foundation that's persistently being shaken.

A example I will use was a long while ago I brought up an outdated inconstancy with the rule section and I didn't see any changes at all, till years later after bringing it up a few more times. Why it was important to me, was the fact it was unclear to people with how it was written, this means it can create issues for both staff and players. Now I think that's a priority to stall arguments and bad blood between others, but, I guess people felt otherwise.


Now back to void I go!

[DM SummerBreeze]

Hey folks, if you're not going to contribute to the actual conversation in this thread, and just derail it into flaming the staff, players, and push unsubstantiated rumours and drama, maybe you should consider moving along somewhere else to spend that energy. We dont want to have to lock the thread here. Lets keep things friendly and constructive.

Thanks !

Frankly, I think my post highlighted a lot of genuine issues people have, but they can't talk about because things like this happen when you don't sugar-coat things for the community. I'm sorry you took offense to my post, but calling down the thought-police to fully remove a post that was meant to give genuine feedback on areas that this server struggles with LITERALLY proved my point.

Y'all want the server to improve and gain traction again, but when someone sits there and gives you genuine reasons new players might get (or have gotten) turned away, you have it deleted because you didn't like the tone? It makes no sense. I was here for about 3 years in total and between me and my overall friend group we brought at least a dozen people to try this server over that time, and those were a majority of the reasons people turned around and didn't come back, including a friend who wanted to Dev for the team but was turned off of it because someone literally accused them of spying for me because homie had beef with me.

You may as well lock down the thread because you don't want actual feedback, you want to be told everything is fine and things will just fix themselves. Brush every criticism and bit of feedback that isn't dipped in your favourite flavor of bullcrap as "trolling" and "flaming". This is the kind of word you're getting out:

"This server has an over-moderation problem sometimes so people can't actually talk about their issues and highlight what might need to be done to give new players a good first experience"
-- This expression of feedback has been removed by Moderators.

Im sorry but actively flaming the staff and shouting unfounded claims of favouritism (Especially when you yourself were removed from staff for corruption.) isn't contributing anything useful to this thread or the conversation. If your goal is to just say things and try and spread drama, just kindly go somewhere else. I've got about a net zero tolerance for it, and not to speak for others, but I think a lot of the team does as well at this point.

If you have constructive things to say that involve solutions to problems or commentary on things players and staff can do to bring in more players or encourage people who are here to log in more than just when events are on, please feel free to chime in though.

[LazyTrain]

Im sorry but actively flaming the staff and shouting unfounded claims of favouritism (Especially when you yourself were removed from staff for corruption.) isn't contributing anything useful to this thread or the conversation. If your goal is to just say things and try and spread drama, just kindly go somewhere else. I've got about a net zero tolerance for it, and not to speak for others, but I think a lot of the team does as well at this point.

If you have constructive things to say that involve solutions to problems or commentary on things players and staff can do to bring in more players or encourage people who are here to log in more than just when events are on, please feel free to chime in though.

You are LITERALLY spreading unfounded claims yourself right now.

I left the dev team of my own volition and still have the PMs to Zanniej because I was burnt out trying to deal with staff drama and this community. I was not "removed for corruption", and imagine a DM unironically spreading that lie to someone they worked with in the past. I would LOVE to know what acts of corruption you think I'm guilty of after I dedicate my time and energy to this server. The only thing I've been guilty of on this server is calling out another staff member for manipulating the rules to his advantage using alt accounts, and daring to step in to a space to RP for one whole event per year after it got an interior.


The irony of you unironically arguing against spreading drama and shouting unfounded claims while literally doing the exact thing you don't want people to do is so funny to me.

You wanna delete posts? How about you delete your utter nonsense trying to smear a prior staff member's reputation because you're pissy he gave you the honest truth about how y'all act. My constructive ideas to bring new players in is maybe try not being raging hypocrites 24/7. It's been 4 years and y'all still ignore reality and brand anybody who leaves an enemy of the state.

[Steve]

Please. Really. Every few pages it seems I have to show up and remind adults(?) to stay on topic, not get personal, and/or take it to PMs.

While I want an open, inclusive space for all community members to add their perspectives on issues, it’s just practically unhelpful and literally damaging to the progressiveness this Server needs, and, effing deserves.

I really don’t care if you’re Staff or an ex-player. Just have some respect, especially if you want some yourself. Posting memes is also NOT helpful.

So again, take grievances to PMs. And, those with extra rights need to be judicial. Thank you.

[selhan]

Mhm, mmmmmhhhhmmmm!!! See this wot I mean, some folks still in the past. Come on peoples!

Let us focus on what does work? What can be done, without thinking about past player to player issues or old staff called/ rulings? Can we not try to degrade other servers? Or point about peoples past corruptions? Can we avoid assumptions on things specially if we really in truth dont know whats really and CURRENTLY going on?

I can sit here and complain negatively about some DM's / staff all days and night, and I can do the same positively ! Watch the news same thing happens there! lol I not afraid of no one and isn't scared to say anything, what someone gonna do Caplock me? lol Theres staff I like, theres staff I wish didnt seem like robots, theres staff I love, theres staff I think are cool af, theres staff I wish had more motivation, theres staff I wish had more free time cause they got some grand ideas or do some awesome stuff, and theres staff I want to give the Rockbottom too and the stunner! And Im sure some feels the same way about me. Like hello the same happens when you go to WORK in real life! Unless your jobless that is. But you want to know something ? I can replace the words "staff" and replace it with "players" and still say it all again!! There might be players or staff some hate or dont get along with but I get along them and have fun with them just fine. I am not one to suddenly hate the world because someone else says so. Wrong Bartender sorry.

Old issues, dramas, whateva happened..is in thee PAST. I had my fair share of past dramas and issues and I dont need no staff to make sure it dont happen again, I MYSELF makes sure it dont happen again. People might have been asshats, ignorant, taught wrong, misunderstood immature still growing mentally, even myself yada yada etc. I surely aint seen anything new and better from talking about. So it dont work! So like why go there and flip skirts when it dont even makes a change?! Waste of typing to me.

The saying, "watch when you point a finger at someone because your pointing three back at yourself" is something people should think about before complaining about other players/ staff / servers / or whatever the case is. Not directing this to anyone in particular, just in general. Better to point out your own faults before the faults of others. Just like in a relationship or marriage . Dont speak on what the other body is doing that you think is bad, instead point out your own flaws. You be surprise how much better the results will be.

Other nwn2 servers out there got their pros and cons just like we do. Ppl log in to each one for their own reasons - FACTS - Maybe think about some of the content they have thats popular and see if this server can incorporate it, if not maybe a middle ground?

NwN EE servers got higher populations - FACTS - What ever they doing obviously works! - FACTS- It's an older game than nwn2 and more ugly to me far as graphics AND they STILL got way more active players - FACTS- What ever the reasons what ever the causes could be a number of things. Why Im not there playing has nothing to do with disliking them, maybe I dont want to spend a few dollars to go back in the past, or maybe I like what I doing now thats just me. Maybe Im content and satisfied with what I got going on now. Instead of thinking of WHY cant this server be like that?! How about ask "CAN" this server DO "Some" of the things those servers are doing ? I mean after all, we are trying to improve yes? And WHY Must we only think we are land lock to one way? Example..we provide content for grinders and we provide content for rpers. SOOO how about think of...

How to provide crafting for people that like crafting?
How to provide content for those that dont like DM events?
How to provide content for thats that DO like DM events?
How to provide content for Immersive rp players?
How to provide content for social players?
How to Improve Player Led content?
How to Improve DM Led content?
How to provide for Trolling Players , scratch that, cut trollers heads off!

Yall get me? And don't go replying to me about DM's or staff favors me etc, cause they dont, Somethings I wanted or something I wanted changed gets denied or ignored too. I just dont sit on my azz and cry about it, I move on and find stuff that I can enjoy. Ambitious!

For those that dont know, I was a player long before staff and I aint even been part of the staff for a year yet. I joined the Dev team not for myself, but for what I call my "fellow server community". I'm still learning as I go, but it was far easier to be able to join the staff to make changes then to sit back submitting requests after requests and requests and requests....that was annoying for me, to the staff and anyone else that had to keep seeing my request. Im sure of it, dont need others to tell me that, I know it was bloody annoying.

Do I code ? No, If I could I would but its not an interest of mine to learn it, sorry I'm not a nerd, I'm that average guy down the way that enjoys playing online rpg games based in a medieval fantasy world, and I have NOT forgotten WHY I log on each time. Its for ME to ENJOY playing a game. But also another true is goblets are only free on the first round of the evenings not 24/7!

One only gets so much when you get things for free! - FACTS!

[DM SummerBreeze]

sorry I'm not a nerd

I dispute this fact.

[zhazz]

Disclaimer — The below is as close to a worst case scenario as a first-time experience can be. But it's what should be avoided at all times.

To attract new players, and encourage them to stay on the server, I think the new player experience needs to be refined. Especially considering many are likely to join as individuals rather than a group.

Consider a new player spawning in at Baldur's Gate on a level 1 character. New player here meaning new to online NWN2 in general.
They have no prior knowledge about the systems in place on the server, aside from likely a cursory knowledge of the Forgotten Realms and Sword Coast setting. And very little knowledge, if any at all, on how to actually make a NWN2 character. Probably they might know a little from tabletop or having played any of the official Baldur's Gate games, but none of that translates well to NWN2.

This new player spawns in, and is immediately given no direction on where to go, what to do, or how to meet up with others. Barely anyone established PCs hang around the Outer City anymore, and even if they did, the campfire area they would be at is so far away from the most obvious place to go for a new player: into the city.

So they spawn in, and go into the city. Then what?
How do they meet other PCs?
How do they learn about quests meant to help new characters?

They run around aimlessly in the city for a while, before either getting lost, or paying 500 gold to be taxied to a location they probably didn't even knew anything about in the first place, and definitely not the place they wanted to go, which was: back to the Outer City.

If they are lucky they maybe found one quest during that wandering, at the very most two. Where do they go to complete them? Certainly not anywhere nearby, as all the quests available in outside areas within the city are for travel quests to Beregost, Cloakwood, Nashkel, and The Woods of Sharp Teeth. Not places a level 1 character can get to on their own, and definitely not nearby.

Should they make it back to the Outer City there's one or two quests for them to pick up, and maybe they'll wander close to the crossroads campfire, which is empty the majority of the time, with everyone congregating at the Friendly Arm Inn instead, if not elsewhere. Hmm, no direction or help to get there.

They could head north of course, but now they are faced with a download screen, and suddenly on a completely different server, with even less direction. Every direction but back the way they came leads to at the very least CR5 areas, where they get Fugued almost instantly.

Alright, maybe they get lucky and find the bandit cave nearby for the Stolen Merchant Wares quest, which they likely don't have. Two steps into the cave they get ambushed by 3 wolves, which could very well kill them. If they make it past that, well say hello to a fun mix of ranged attackers, a few Daze casters, and some melee enemies that do sneak attack damage. Usually fighting one means fighting at least two at a time. Just like heading north without direction it's a quick trip to the Fugue.

Another option is that they stumble into the graveyard. Alright that should be fine for a level 1 character, right? Wrong. Most undeads require Alchemical Silver weapons to get past the DR, and it's easy to get into combat with two or more that the same time. Brute-force-solution builds with a high focus on Strength may do alright here, but anyone else will be handicapped by having no damage modifier to speak of, and no Alchemical Silver weapons to overcome the DR of the monsters here. You already know how this is going to end: one ticket to the Fugue please.

Maybe they go south instead, and step onto the Wyvern Bridge. Of course here they could head East, and find typically lone wolves, an occasional spider or snake, and if they turn the wrong way, a CR4 dungeon guarded by similar CR4 enemies outside in the CR1 area. Run back and forth a few times, possibly getting enough XP to level up — provided they are playing a a non-ECL character and got lucky completing at least one Outer City quest before going there. Otherwise it's either running out of enemies to kill, and stumbling upon the CR4 guards, or going along the path to another area that has them just as lost, with paths to yet again more CR4+ areas. Yep, Fugue time.

Going south they run into another area of at least CR2, with a mix of spell casters, ranged, fast moving dogs, hard-hitting bears, and again often ending up fighting at least two enemies at the same time. They might survive it if they just blindly run along the road, and make it to the Friendly Arm Inn. Success! Maybe. It depends if there's anyone actually there. Every path from here leads to other CR3+ areas, which, you guessed it, means a quick trip to the Fugue.


So to recap
A new player on the server has no direction at all on where to go. Means of acquiring help is very limited, as they most likely won't know how to bring up the Player Chat window to easily message someone else. If they are able to gain any XP or gold at all prior to leaving the safety of the Outer City and the city proper, the Fugue is likely to eat up the gained XP in short order. Not because the player did something wrong, but because they simply didn't know where to go or what to do.

Not a very encouraging first-time experience on the server.


Possible ways to fix it?
Some kind of scripted actual guided tour by the orphan(s) at the spawn-in point. Pay 1 gold to get a full guided tour that takes the player through all the relevant in-city zones to meet with quest givers and game-play important NPCs (merchants most likely). Then have the quest level the character up to level 2 if not even level 3 regardless of their ECL, and make sure this reward is communicated as the quest is given.

Will this fix it entirely?
No, of course not. But it will at least provide direction, incentive, and put visual cues on the important places to visit, rather than mere text.

[Ghost]

Possible ways to fix it?
Some kind of scripted actual guided tour by the orphan(s) at the spawn-in point. Pay 1 gold to get a full guided tour that takes the player through all the relevant in-city zones to meet with quest givers and game-play important NPCs (merchants most likely). Then have the quest level the character up to level 2 if not even level 3 regardless of their ECL, and make sure this reward is communicated as the quest is given.

Love it! Hells, if long enough and detailed enough, I'd even say level 5!

But someone has to make it.

[Avanos]

Possible ways to fix it?
Some kind of scripted actual guided tour by the orphan(s) at the spawn-in point. Pay 1 gold to get a full guided tour that takes the player through all the relevant in-city zones to meet with quest givers and game-play important NPCs (merchants most likely). Then have the quest level the character up to level 2 if not even level 3 regardless of their ECL, and make sure this reward is communicated as the quest is given.

Love it! Hells, if long enough and detailed enough, I'd even say level 5!

But someone has to make it.

this is a goood idea, buuuuut...

I'm CONCERNED that Dalo hasn't woken up and started working on this.

DALO GET ON IT NOW BEFORE I PVP MONGER YOU!

[krighaur]

Why not start all PC level 5 ?

There will still the level phase, but you avoid the first levels which must be very difficult for some classes. I don't speak for myself I play fighting classes and have no dificulties at start, but I suppose it must be very difficult for a low HD class with only level 1 spells.

Or if keeping the level 1 start, multiply by 2 or 3 the reward for the low level quests. A multiplier only available until a level to be determined.

[Avanos]

UD start at least for new players is horrible.
Unless you have a donor/benefactor - its such a grueling process that most people suggest that you level a surfacer to 10 first, then rcr it into a UD character.