Sub races and exp pentaly

[Therlyn]

Had a question about this subject.
Went to look through certain sub races and well I wonder why they count as a +1.
In some cases they aren't really stronger then other other races, in general it mainly discourages to play them unless you do not mind a long grind.
Especially since when you hit a certain amount of exp you're considered as a higher level making the exp penalty even worse.

Just going through the bunch here.

Drow-Yuan ti pureblood

They are very strong and the +2 is justified.
It also makes playing them tedious.
Making a 'RP' build with a drow is one of the most masochistic ways to play.



Gray orc

This is one of those cases that is questionable.
They get strength/wisdom but lose charisma/int.
Long gait and scent are nice extras but they also suffer from light sensitivity which translates in losing a feat.


Genasi

Same boat as the gray orc they suffer from exp but they aren't much ahead of others.
Most of their special abilities are not useful water genasi aside.
As many non +1 sub races they trade in.


Fire:

Intellect vs charisma benefit them in most cases.
How ever their favoured class is fighter making multi classer less comfortable.
The fire resistance is a small extra all with all they are arguably a + but personally I think this minor bonus doesn't justify the +1.


Earth:

Strength/con vs wisdom/charisma.
The short damage reduction isn't bad neither is acid resistance.
The stats are lined up but that is about it.

Water:

Aside from the concealment bonus +2 coin vs +2 charisma isn't a great trade off since it locks certain builds out.

Air:

Dex/int vs wisdom/charisma this pretty much locks out a lot of classes.
You could play them but the +1 doesn't make it tempting.
Their ability has no use what so ever as the DC is horrible, the resistance is a nice feat how ever.


Tiefling

Compare them to air genasi bonus wise and look at the exp gain.

3 resistances instead of 1.
Dex/int + 2 and -2 charisma vs the -2 wisdom -2 charisma.
Darkness vs gust of wind.

All with all Tieflings are a bit stronger and you could say +1 is justified.
Gray orcs and genasi don't come close to this and seem more like normal sub races than a +1.

Aasimar

The gain + 2 wisdom and +2 charisma with out draw backs.
That justifies a +1 .


Wood elf:

They gain +2 strength +2 dexterity losing out con and int.
+2 vs enhancement and sleep imuum along with being able to use a bow and long sword no matter what.
Keen sense also adds some gains.


Strong heart half ling

Strength vs dexterity
Extra feat like humans
Stealthy
Good aim
Keen hearing and go on.


Point being is why are gray orcs and Genasi +1 at all.
They aren't holding up with the other +1 sub races and even some normal sub races are superior.
It might be a bit low on the agenda to change it though maybe for the future they could have their exp penalty removed unless the solid reason is to discourage players from playing them.

I am pretty sure it is a part of the reason the UD lacks drow as well.

[Luna]

For certain classes.. take genasi as an example.
It's well worth getting the stat bonuses, and doesn't hurt a whole lot to get the negative stat.
So it's worth the +1 ECL.

[muffinFBSL]

I agree that Water is a bad +1 level adjustment, but Air genasi is not bad at all. What kind of classes are you talking about with -2 CHA and -2 WIS that make the +2 DEX and +2 INT not worth it? As far as I can tell, you've really just got a pwnzor Assassin type.

[Larzs]

These have all been figured out long before they were put to a game, so...unless they add/remove stuff. None of these are gonna change. The stats are the biggest thing...as +2 to a stat save a lot of time and effort when trying to meet the req for a given Epic Feat.

[Therlyn]

Think you're missing the point.
Will sum up a bit shorter.

Tiefling/Aasimar VS air/water/fire genasi and gray orcs in terms of benefits.
The first two are by far superior in terms of benefits while the 3 genasi are close if not equal to the non ECL 1 races.

Aasimar have no stat draw back compared to the genasi/gray orcs and tieflings have 1 draw back (charisma) but 3 resists instead of 1.

Water genasi vs shield dwarves both got charisma as 'dump' stat though dwarves are superior with their extra abilities.
The same goes for fire genasi.

Point being is 3 out of 4 genasi and gray orcs are pretty much in line with the other races that do not have an exp penalty.
The difference between them and those is very small while the difference with them and tieflings/aasimar is quite big.

I just don't see how they qualify as +1 ECL.

[lethe]

i said this a few days ago.. they just said Earth is an excellent fighter, fire is an excellent mage etc.. i think they just stick to favored /easiest classes for a given race :/

who wouldn't want to play an earth genasi druid/spirit shaman with that model on it's female? why does it have to suck that hard on those classes ,understandable yes but also get an xp penalty..

i think genasi stat gains should be softened up a bit, +1/-1 , a bit more flavor with those abilities maybe more uses or a bit of scaling and removal of xp cap.

As an RP server we shouldn't be that stuck up on these..

[Rogon222]

What I do not understand about these races that fit into the +level category is how the experience is being dealt out. For instance: A level 1 Teifling goes into the cemetary and is getting @50exp a kill off the skeletons and zombies. They need 3000exp to get to level 2. The problem is at about the 850exp to 1200exp mark the experienced gained from the very same monsters drops to 12-24exp for a kill. I am now a level 8 Teifling and generally speaking at about the one third to half way point I see a dramatic drop in experience gained off of monsters. Is this by design?

[Eldebryn]

What I do not understand about these races that fit into the +level category is how the experience is being dealt out. For instance: A level 1 Teifling goes into the cemetary and is getting @50exp a kill off the skeletons and zombies. They need 3000exp to get to level 2. The problem is at about the 850exp to 1200exp mark the experienced gained from the very same monsters drops to 12-24exp for a kill. I am now a level 8 Teifling and generally speaking at about the one third to half way point I see a dramatic drop in experience gained off of monsters. Is this by design?

Yes, XP in this game is calculated based on your ECL (estimated character level) which is equal to your class level PLUS your level adjustment from your race.

The thing is that ECL here is calculated from the amount of exp. you already have instead, so, at 0 exp you are ECL 1, at 1000 exp you become ecl 2 etc...

That is independent of your class level though, the reason is to prevent people from farming 50 exp mobs at level 1 to gain a few tens of levels alltogether.

[Rogon222]

Yes, XP in this game is calculated based on your ECL (estimated character level) which is equal to your class level PLUS your level adjustment from your race.

The thing is that ECL here is calculated from the amount of exp. you already have instead, so, at 0 exp you are ECL 1, at 1000 exp you become ecl 2 etc...

That is independent of your class level though, the reason is to prevent people from farming 50 exp mobs at level 1 to gain a few tens of levels alltogether.

Fair enough, thanks for the quick response.

[kellendril]

bear in mind too that certain races have synergy with certain classes, like genasi with elemental archer

[Coreska]

I think the idea behind why Genasi are statted why they are is that the people deciding over the Planetouched races wanted all of them to have a -Cha except for Aasimar. A Gray Orc seems like it could make a really powerful pure Monk, or a Sacred Fist. It's not like they need to be viable paladins. I'm pretty sure all the Elf races can get the feats mentioned for the Wood Elf, having those weapon proficiencies on a Wood Elf isn't some huge help either considering they'd best be suited for stuff that would probably end up getting martial weapon proficiency if they needed to use a longsword. Strongheart Halflings are pretty good, but I'd really say they aren't much better than humans, and that's only at things a Halfling is supposed to good at.

I'd say the UD lacks Drow because people don't want to play evil characters without any goodie-two-shoes people around.

Experience really shouldn't be the biggest worry on a server where you can Roleplay. If you just want to grind, why would you mind how long it was?