STR-based Ranger, comments?

[maseoo]

Hi!
I'm interested in making this Ranger/FB Tanarukk:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?221931

He is Strength-based, possibly wielding dual warhammers. I'm not sure about the skills, I filled them in rather quickly. Starting DEX is 16 and not 15 (Tanarukk not available on nwn2db.com). This is for Underdark play, of course.

I have a few questions about the build since I am new to rangers:
- Are the feat choices OK? Which need revision, if any?
- Do I "need" Expose Weakness for the build?
- Is the stat split decent? I was thinking about CE/ICE. It seems the feats are needed for the extra AC on a STR-based ranger. Is 13 INT (or more) is required for the build to "work"?
- "Lore" question: I'm a bit tempted to go 14 INT to be able to speak both Undercommon and Abyssal. I reckon a tanarukk should be able to speak Undercommon (they get Animal and Common for free...), but should he also be able to speak Abyssal since he is a portion of demonic blood in him? In that case I guess I need 14 INT...
- Can I live without UMD?

Best regards!
/maseoo

[mrieder79]

You might want to end dex on 17 for 20 with a +3 item for the full ac bonus of Mithral Bp. I also notice that you took humans as a favored enemy. Are there a lot of those in the UD?

[mrm3ntalist]

Hi!
I'm interested in making this Ranger/FB Tanarukk:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?221931

He is Strength-based, possibly wielding dual warhammers. I'm not sure about the skills, I filled them in rather quickly. Starting DEX is 16 and not 15 (Tanarukk not available on nwn2db.com). This is for Underdark play, of course.

I have a few questions about the build since I am new to rangers:
- Are the feat choices OK? Which need revision, if any?
- Do I "need" Expose Weakness for the build?
- Is the stat split decent? I was thinking about CE/ICE. It seems the feats are needed for the extra AC on a STR-based ranger. Is 13 INT (or more) is required for the build to "work"?
- "Lore" question: I'm a bit tempted to go 14 INT to be able to speak both Undercommon and Abyssal. I reckon a tanarukk should be able to speak Undercommon (they get Animal and Common for free...), but should he also be able to speak Abyssal since he is a portion of demonic blood in him? In that case I guess I need 14 INT...
- Can I live without UMD?

Best regards!
/maseoo

I think you should consider full ranger, instead of Ranger/FB. As you correctly mentioned CE maybe ICE too are needed because of the low AC. If you use CE/ICE you cant use PA/IPA so the benefits fromFB are wasted.

The "Two weapon defence" line of feats as well as Amror skin will help with the AC problem

Yes, you do need Expose Weakness

I would suggest extend metamagic as well. Rangers get a very nice spellbook and having those spells extended can make a difference. Better spell management as well.

The stat split seems ok. Try to end on an even CON score though since Rangers get animalistic power +2CON and bears endurance +4CON.

[chad878262]

For underdark you might consider cave stalker and stealth skills. Cave stalker let's all the ranger goodies work in natural indoor areas.

[mrm3ntalist]

For underdark you might consider cave stalker and stealth skills. Cave stalker let's all the ranger goodies work in natural indoor areas.

It doesnt... at least not yet

I play a ranger/cavestalker and i would have been better as a pure ranger

[chad878262]

Really? That is unfortunate. Always wanted to try cave stalker specifically to gain camouflage and hips in caves. Very sad these don't work.

[maseoo]

Thanks for helpful comments!

I wanted to do FB since it kind of fits with the Malarite thing. Is taking Able learner and investing in UMD (wands) and Tumble (10 ranks max...) enough to compensate for no CE/ICE, and keeping FB with PA/IPA? Or will the AC be too awful?

I guess Assassin (4 levels or something) is available to get UMD and Tumble as well even though it isn't my first pick. Or Cavestalker 3 levels for Tumble and + 1AC.

(I skipped hide/ms completely even though those are Ranger class skills, since they won't work when you really need them (no hips)...)

[chad878262]

The cave stalker idea would have allowed hips in natural caves, but since Mrm3ntalist has advised it currently doesn't work there is no point in that. Stealth still has its users even without hips (but I simply can't imagine a ranger without stealth).

If you go assassin you might as well go 8 levels to get hips in my opinion. However, then you have to decide weather to delay hips or bane and ptwf to very late. UMD can help, but not as much as you think. Wand of improved mage armor and shield would be good, though you can get the same from potions. Remember as a ranger your natural and Deflection ac is already taken care of.

In the end ICE is the way to go since your dex will only allow you to get one two weapon defense feat. Without hips you are really going to want that AC.

Shameless plug, this is why we need Ranger PRC's! (See m3nt's thread in the suggestions forums)

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=47631

[maseoo]

I have a couple more questions about multiclassing:

1) In the UD, isn't UMD a necessity, especially if there are not other players/casters around? I was thinking about Protection from Alignment which Rangers don't get. Isn't this spell needed against both mindflayers in the Hive/Compound and against trog/goblin shamans (Magic missile spells)? Assassin 4 + Able learner gives early umd, and enough points to make it useful...
2) Cavestalker: from what I understand, it gives FE progression, but no other ranger progressions (companion, spells)? Even though you get FE progression, Bane of Enemies is postponed, and gotten with 21 levels of Ranger only?

[mrm3ntalist]

I have a couple more questions about multiclassing:

1) In the UD, isn't UMD a necessity, especially if there are not other players/casters around? I was thinking about Protection from Alignment which Rangers don't get. Isn't this spell needed against both mindflayers in the Hive/Compound and against trog/goblin shamans (Magic missile spells)? Assassin 4 + Able learner gives early umd, and enough points to make it useful...

Protection from evil is a good spell to have. There are two ways you can have it
a. have a wand crafted.
b. There is a helmet that can cast protection from alignment 3xday. It is not very rare

2) Cavestalker: from what I understand, it gives FE progression, but no other ranger progressions (companion, spells)? Even though you get FE progression, Bane of Enemies is postponed, and gotten with 21 levels of Ranger only?

Cavestalker allows you to pick one FE as a bonus feat. Karond did some testing and found that the damage wont stack proprerly. Meaning you will get the damage from Bane (+2d6) but then only 1 damage from FEs instead of 7.

In the end the bonus AC from cavestalker and the possibility that this prc will be fixed in the future makes it a decent PRC for a ud ranger

Bane of enemies requires ranger21 so yes, bane is delayed if you multiclass even with Cavestalker

[chad878262]

As someone who does not have umd I can tell you it is pretty much a necessity if you are going to solo certain areas of the surface too. Even if it's cross class I recommend you get at least enough to use wands (11 points I think, not sure cuz I don't have it).

Protection from evil is one reason, but there are many other wands you will find a need for, such as death ward.

[maseoo]

Cavestalker allows you to pick one FE as a bonus feat. Karond did some testing and found that the damage wont stack properly. Meaning you will get the damage from Bane (+2d6) but then only 1 damage from FEs instead of 7.

Does this mean that the damage against the FE from Cavestalker gets 2d6+1 damage, or does this bug apply to all FE:s, including those from Ranger? In the first case, it's not such a big deal, but in the latter case it's more problematic.

Otherwise, compared to Assassin, Cavestalker gets high BAB and high Fort and Reflex saves so it seems a good choice, and a total of 4 AC (3 from Tumble). And can get at least enough UMD for wands by crossclassing, although late.

[mrm3ntalist]

Does this mean that the damage against the FE from Cavestalker gets 2d6+1 damage, or does this bug apply to all FE:s, including those from Ranger? In the first case, it's not such a big deal, but in the latter case it's more problematic.

It only applies to the FE you selected from the cavestalker feat. The rest FEs work normally

[maseoo]

I'm trying to decide if Cavestalker is worth it.

I'm wondering if there is any chance the class will be fixed anytime soon?
I'm thinking about the HiPS/Camouflage apparently not working in caves (=many parts of the UD), and the FE bug on Cavestalker addressed by mrm3ntalist?
Is there a chance, and/or can they be fixed technically?
The HiPS/Camouflage (besides the RP) is the main selling point for a Ranger it seems, and I would pick Cavestalker if I knew there was a good chance these features will work as intended.

[mrm3ntalist]

I'm trying to decide if Cavestalker is worth it.

I'm wondering if there is any chance the class will be fixed anytime soon?.

Hips now works in caves etc, for the ranger/cavestalker combination. Thanks Rasael!

That is a big boost for the PRC, to have it working. If something can be done about the speed in hips ( emulate camouflage in a way ) that would be perfect