Warhammers and Other Negelected Items

[Eclypticon]

It seems to me that warhammers seem to be lacking in the random loot generator compared to other weapons. I could be wrong, but I think they could use a little love as they appear to drop very little.

Comments?

[Karond]

For the random generator, it's equal more or less between all weapons.

It's the loot table, with named items, that has a disparity towards some weapons and armors. There is an overwhelming amount of fullplates, breastplates, robes, shortswords, daggers and longswords compared to other kinds of armor and weapons. There is a clear bias in design.

[Thorsson]

Yep. It's not just Warhammers that suffer by any means.

[thids]

I like the direction that was taken with adding new shops and weapons over the last year-year and a half. It would be nice to see that trend continue. Certain weapons are under represented in the loot table? Add +2/+3 versions to the shops and +2/3/4 versions to the loot table. If there is a lack of merchants, the NPC merchant with guards at the Boareskyr Bridge still has no inventory (I think at least? has that been changed?), the merchant at Ulgoth's Beard could use a few more "named" weapons as well and the smith in Darkhold could use a unique inventory instead of the one copied over from Nashkel.

[Karond]

I would love to see more of these as well, especially along the lines of the "Arnbjorn, merchant of the north" NPC I made for the Palace District. In fact, I would like to see a continuation of merchants at that powerlevel and higher still, as it greatly helps balance and makes the game more fun for everyone involved. It's a key to enjoyment even I would say.


But there are some things that trouble me. The first is that I've not seen a single member of our community make items with a quality approach like I have (Null'afae in Sshamath central, Illithid Hive, Arnbjorn). Most of the items people make are awful, lacking lore entirely, or having a single line of lore that is inevitably full of spelling mistakes (because why bother rechecking?).

Their very design is also poor, so poor in fact that they're little else but copies of what we already have (or why not just have all your items with the same icon), or seriously OP, instead of thinking of what gaps could need filling among what's currently available. Most of them are thinly veiled attempts at getting their dream items into the game that helps their characters.

The last problem for me though is the complete lack of oversight. To get Arnbjorn into the game, I went through a 4 month review process through the QC to have everything checked and approved. Can you believe that even though this is supposedly standard practice, I'm the only one that does that?

Most people just send awfully designed items to our developers or Luna, some of them OP, and these people just implement them into the game without any QC review. Even worse, these individuals who send these items in are so lacking in creativity and indeed effort, that several of the recently added items have just been lame copies of what I have suggested in QC, but without lore! Some even have the same names!

This lack of a QC review is troubling, given that we've taken back items before several times, and sometimes let people who got them before they were pulled keep them as grandfathered, further creating imbalance and annoyance among people that feel one should pull all or none. What's even worse is that when I made Arnbjorn for the Palace District, he had more items on him! Items that had been deemed balanced through 4 months of review by the most knowledgable people in our community on balance and item power. And what happened?

Well, the review was disrespected of course and several items were pulled without explanation by whomever implemented it (items that take me 1 hour each to make). In the case of Null'afae, they also nerfed some items so that they would never be bought (like, that +3 AB, keen, improved initiative greatsword for sale there? Was originally +3 EB, but was somehow considered too OP by whomever implemented it, despite the QC review. Yet the +4 EB spear went in for Arnbjorn).

So, as you can see from someone that has made items for the server, it's a source of frustration.

[Theodore01]

@Karond: That's a shame to hear - Thanks for all your work.

[mrm3ntalist]

Implemantation problems aside, I always like it when vendors sale different items relative to the area they are at.

[Eclypticon]

First of this topic was about warhammers. Now I find that we have other problems. I do not mind discussing them here even if it is a little bit off topic.

I for one have a bit of knowledge about the tool set. I know how to make items, creatures, and a few other things. I was not aware that we needed help in that area. I can write stories behind items. I have experience doing so.

If needed, I can make some stuff, write some stories behind them with some lore, and send them in.

The only question is what is most lacking in things people need? I suppose we would need to make a list, set guidelines power wise, and discuss this in the QC forum.

Also, I appreciate all you have done Karond. I was not aware that you have had trouble with your stuff. In my oppinion, I think we could make more progress now than before.

[grunts]

I'm not gonna lie Arnbjorn is easily the greatest merchant on this server. It's a shame you were so inhibited during implementation because it really helps the server economy giving players something to use a lot of gold on. It doesn't hurt the loot system either since you made them so specialized.

As far as the topic goes, yeah I NEVER find warhammers, flails or greatswords. I think i've found 30 or so Banded Mail+1 and maybe one magic Padded Armor. The loot system in general needs a giant overhaul. Vets dominate the server far too much due to the rarity of high epic weapons. I think the loot nerf was designed with the assumption of a 65+ player population, which is more like 15-30 these days. There are people with four lv 30 powerbuilds farming the server daily and they still aren't finding these weapons. What chance does a newer player have?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be very rare, I'm just saying 99% of them shouldn't be rotting on some vets alt, which is currently the case atm.

[Duster47]

For what it is worth, there are over 4000 items in the BG module beyond those found in the three OCs. There are probably untold other items buried in HAK packs, which do not appear in the Toolset. The sorting is haphazard and generally awful. It is a wonder DMs can find anything in the selector lists.

A few months ago, some DMs took on the task of sorting through the 4000 items as they already did with creatures (2000+) a few months ago.

I recommend we allow the DMs to sort what we have, find the gaps there, remove the silly things, then go from there. Simply adding more will cause the existing finding and sorting problems to become worse. Plus, adding new items is really a QC job now. Suggestions can be taken, but we are getting more picky about what we add. Karond's item pack was really a test case for the future.

[matelener]

Amazing job on the Arnbjorn, he shines like a diamond in the neuter motley of existing merchants (Sevens Suns merchantile should be wiped out, it's that ugly). Many interesting items with a 'soul' and coherent with the setting with only one exception - Auril's Touch battleaxe shouldn't grant a bonus spell slot to druids because an oath prohibits them from using this weapon type. I wish there were more equally well designed merchants from other regions (and centered around other classes).

I also applaud the idea of buffing inferior item types by giving them reasonably stronger (or unique) properties. More love to halfplates, scale mails, hide armors, halberds, warmaces etc.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of balancing classes this way. Imo, barbarians (that don't take Bear Warrior PRC) and shamans need class perks tweaking rather than fixes through items.

[DM Bloodlust]

A few months ago, some DMs took on the task of sorting through the 4000 items as they already did with creatures (2000+) a few months ago.

I just sent that in less than an hour ago, as the DM who sorted through the items (also changed a few books, no more books IG about the time of troubles etc). It was interesting to see what kind of items we have and in what amount, and the amount of files can easily be downsized. The problem I encountered was that whenever people in the past have made a creature, they made their own items for that creature. So we've like twelve files all being basic spears in the module. It's just unnecessary. If you QC people read this or just for general interest, going through the lists it seems we have:

• Bludgeoning Weapons
  
  24 warmaces
  41 Warhammers
  40 Slings
  55 Quarterstaves
  12 Morningstars
  18 Maces
  7 Light Hammers
  27 Flails
  12 Clubs
  
  Piercing Weapons
  
  38 Heavy Crossbows
  31 Light Crossbows
  51 Daggers
  22 Halberds
  53 Longbows
  48 Rapiers
  11 Scythes
  29 Shortbows
  82 Shortswords
  37 Spears
  
  Slashing Weapons
  
  25 Bastard Swords
  24 Battleaxes
  25 Dwarven Waraxes
  21 Falchions
  29 Greataxes
  42 Greatswords
  22 Handaxes
  58 Kamas
  25 Katanas
  36 Kukris
  110 Longswords
  29 Scimitars
  8 Sickles
  
  Heavy Armor
  
  3 Banded Mails
  152 Fullplates
  4 Half-plates
  
  Light Armor
  
  71 Chain Shirts
  84 Leather Armors
  6 Mithral Breastplates
  8 Mithral Chainshirts
  32 Padded Armors
  65 Studded Leathers
  
  Medium Armor
  
  74 Breastplates
  19 Chainmail
  9 Hide Armor
  17 Scale Mail

This is the total amount of magic items, not including the original items from the game (a few of those have been implemented) or all the basic ones with no abilities or just +EB or +AB.

So, if you're a Light Hammer user using Banded Mails, you have a legitimate reason to complain about the lack of variety

[Lockonnow]

well was there any chance that will give hope to us that looking for a item or a weapon that can cast bless weapon 1xday or flaming weapon 1xday

[grunts]

That list is hard to believe based on my experience. Am I the only one that finds 20x as many Banded Mail as everything else?

[Hoihe]

That list is hard to believe based on my experience. Am I the only one that finds 20x as many Banded Mail as everything else?

The list gives you the non-randomized, pre-set items in the loot tables. Chances are you keep finding randomized banded mails.